Dated October 18, 2020

Note: This interview was conducted back in 2019 for Wikinews and the text has been since published here under the Creative Commons Attribution 2.5 license. This article has not undergone the complete peer-review process of Wikinews pre-publication.

The spread of coronavirus in late 2019 and then in 2020 led to a global pandemic, affecting various daily activities. Originating in Wuhan, China, the virus spread globally, and by March, drastic measures were taken by the Indian government. Some branches of the [South Western Railway](South Western Railway zone) of India had started taking precautions by distributing masks to ticket collectors and guards from as early as March 8. Some colleges were suspended by March 13, their exams postponed as the government introduced lockdown and enforced social distancing.

Announced in the evening, the Indian Prime Minister asked his countrymen to get the essential products and avoid going out as much as possible. Long queues outside the grocery shops, people in masks, some in N-95 masks, and hand sanitisers at the gates of megamarts were a common sight. There were reduced items in the shops, and some stores had a limit of the number of customers allowed in the store at any given time. Food delivery services, and taxi services were on hiatus—workers who depended on the profession for their daily income, while people including software engineers were working from home. Physical classes in schools and colleges were replaced by online lectures to prevent social gatherings.

While many relied on technology for continuing their work and earn their livelihood; on the behalf of Wikinews, I reached out to sex workers in Mysore in June who, unlike others, can't maintain social distancing for their work. Two sex workers, Akram Pasha, and Jaya (a pseudonym), who were part of a sex worker's group called "Ashodaya Samithi" discussed how their lives had been affected by the coronavirus, the lockdown and the restrictions they had faced.

Interview with a male sex worker

Akram Pasha: Greetings. My name is Akram. I am from Mysore. I am part of a male sex worker community. And I have been living with the HIV-virus for the last 18 years. And I have been working with the Ashodaya [community] since day-one.^{Hindi language: ‍नमस्ते। मेरा नाम अकरम है। मैं मैसूर से हूँ। और मैं एक male sex worker community से belong करता हूँ। और मैं पिछले १८ साल से HIV-virus के साथ जी रहा हूँ। और मैं अशोदया [समिति] मैं day one से काम कर रहाँ हूँ।}

Ashodaya is a CO—which is a Community Organisation—it works with female, male and transgender sex workers. Its operations are related to their health: primarily, focused on HIV-AIDS.^{Hindi language: ‍अशोदया जो एक CO है, जो community organisation कहलाता है, यह female, male and transgender sex worker[s] के साथ काम करता है। जो उनके स्वास्थ को लेके, जो main होता है: HIV-AIDS को, उसको लेके काम करता है।}

So can you tell me something about yourself?^{Hindi language: ‍तो मुझे आपके बारे में ज़रा बताएँगे?}

Akram Pasha: About me? I have been working as a sex worker in Mysore for the past 25-26 years. And along with that, when Ashodaya was formed, I became a part of it. Before that, my daily routine was to come [work] in the field, whatever was my task, complete it; and with the community—I would keep my distance—I didn't used to talk much with anyone in the beginning. I would distance myself: come, [do my work], and then leave. But when Ashodaya started, and I felt I am not alone, that there are many [people] like me in the community: we all have to move forward [in life] together. With this thought, I started interacting with them. So slowly-slowly: first sixteen people joined, then from sixteen; now there are about 5000 members in the community. [It includes] female, male as well as transgender. A lot of the members are gay, bisexual, homosexual, and hijrā[s].^{Hindi language: ‍मेरे बारे में? में पिछले २५-२६ साल से मैसूर में मैं sex worker का काम कर रहा हूँ। और उसके साथ-साथ मैं, जो अशोदया शुरू हुआ, उसके साथ जुड़ा हूँ। उसके पहले में, मेरा जो daily routine था, field में आना, मेरा काम: जितना है, उतना करना, और ज़्यादा community के साथ—दूर रह—ज़्यादा बात नहीं करता था में पहले किसी के साथ। लेकिन—दूर-दूर ही: आता और चले जाता था। फिर जब अशोदया शुरू हुआ, जब हमें लगा हम अकेले नहीं हैं; हमारे जैसे बहुत सारे और community है, उनको भी हमें साथ लेके जाना है। एसा सोच के हम उनसे साथ जुड़ने लगें। तो धीरे-धीरे: पहले मैं: हम १६ लोग जुड़े. १६ से अभी लगभग ५००० समुदाय के लोग हैं। जो female, male and transgender। जो इसमें ज़्यादातर हमारे जो बोलते हैं—gays, bisexual, homosexual, हिजड़ा—यह सब समुदाय के लोग हैं।}

What is your age?^{Hindi language: ‍आपकी उमर क्या है?}

Akram Pasha: I am currently 45 years old.^{Hindi language: ‍अभी मेरा ४५ years चल रहा है।}

You said you have been working for like what, last 25 years, [right]?^{Hindi language: ‍आपने बताया कि आप पिछले कितने, २५ साल से काम कर रहे हैं?}

Akram Pasha: [For the past] 30 years.^{Hindi language: ‍३० साल से।}

[I was] fifteen years old when we came here. And then, slowly-slowly over time, I entered into this field. But now, it is my time to retire. Now I want to give others an opportunity.^{Hindi language: ‍१५ साल की उमर थी जब से हम लोग यहाँ पे आए। एकदम फिर धीरे-धीरे से इस field में आ गए। तो अभी मेरा भी trading का time हो गया। अभी मैं दूसरों को मौक़ा देना चाहता हूँ।}

[Would you] tell me about your work?^{Hindi language: ‍आपके काम के बारे में बताएँगे?}

Akram Pasha: Regarding Ashodaya?^{Hindi language: ‍जो अशोदया के?}

Ashodaya mainly works to spread awareness [among sex workers] about HIV. They gather the community, identify the needs of the community, look after what the community requires, and also deals with how the community faces violence. I mean the, community often faces violence. It happens from the family, from boyfriend, it can happen from their neighbours, their landlords. So Ashodaya [fights against] violence and exploitation [against the sex workers]. Like for example, they advocate, they network [with the sex workers], and accrediting them by rapid enrolment. They do all these [things]. And mostly about their health. They spread awareness about HIV in the community, and they also counsel. Their [sex worker's] job, which has a high risk [to contract STD], they [Ashodaya] help getting treatment of sexually transmitted disease[s]. Like for example, when we first speak to them [sex workers], we identify if they have any symptoms of STD, [and if so], we get them treated. And then we go check for HIV. And if they have contracted HIV, then we get [them] registered for ART [Anti-retroviral treatment], and we follow-up after ART. Those who are [HIV-]negative, we mostly encourage them to use condom[s], we explain them; and [we] tell them how they can live their lives in a better way.^{Hindi language: ‍अशोदया mainly HIV-awareness के लिए काम करता है। जो community को इक्ख़ा करना, community की need identify करना, community को main need क्या है, और community का violence किस तरीक़े से है: मतलब community में ज़्यादातर violence होता है। Family से होता है, उनके boyfriend से होता है, और [उनके] neighbours से होता है, stakeholders से होता है। तो ऐसी जो violence, मतलब उनके साथ जो हिंसा होती है, शोषणया होती है, उसके लिए कार करते हैं। जैसे कि advocacy करना, networking करना, rapid enrollment करके उनको accredit कराना, यह करते हैं। और उसके ज़्यादातर, स्वास्थ को लेके जो काम करते हैं, उनको HIV के बारे में awareness create करना, और counselling करना, और जो उनका काम है, उसमें जितना high-risk है, उसके लिए STDs का treatment करवाना। जैसे कि, पहले हम उनको बात करते हि identify कर लेते है: उनको कोई STD का symptoms है, तो उसको treatment कराते है। फिर बाद में जाके HIV का जाँच करवाते है। अगर HIV हो गया, तो उनको ART [Anti-retroviral treatment] के लिए registration करते हैं, ART दिलाके follow-up करते हैं। जो negative है, उनको condom के बारे में ज़्यादातर motivation करते है, उनको समझाते है, और उनके life में कैसे और अच्छी तरह से जी सकते है, उसके बारे में [बात] करते है।}

And along with that, we are organising some programmes. Now we are looking for places, the ways they [sex workers] can get a place [for their sex work]. We create awareness about it. So these are [also] the things that we do. And the other thing is, mainly, the social benefits for the community: There are some social benefits that the government provides. For example, they get about 20 thousand to 50 thousand rupees from the Women and Child development. So we also help them to get these [benefits]. Along with that: the national identity. National identity is important for every sex worker. When we started this organisation, almost 90% of the members [of the community] did not have any national identity. For example, ration card, PAN card, identity card, passport, or let it be any national identity: they didn't have it. So we started from there. Every sex worker should get a national identity. Because that is very important for their nationality. So thinking about it, what we did was to get everyone an Aadhaar card. Our community got in touch with one of the Aadhaar [issuing] personal assistants, we asked them to get all of our people, almost 5700 people, the Aadhaar card. We also helped the trans[gender] community to get it, so that there is no stigma there [about being transgender]. Whatever the [previous] problems were, of this community, trans-community shouldn't have to now face it. So we thought that and got everyone [the aadhaar card]. So we got them the Aadhaar card, and also the Ration card. There are three types of ration card: APL card [above poverty line], BPL card [below poverty line], and antadoya ann card. [Our community] mostly has either BPL or antadoya ann card. Antadoya ann card is for the extrememly poor, or HIV positive people: they get some of the things for free. There is BPL card [for others].^{Hindi language: ‍और उसके साथ-साथ हम लोग अभी नए programme कर रहे है, जो place को ले कर काम कर रहे है, जो place दिलाते है उनको। Place के बारे में awareness create करते है। तो यह सब हम लोग करवाते हैं। और इसकी और दूसरी चीज़ है, mainly क्या है, जो community में जो social benefit: सरकार की ओर से बहुत सारी social benefit मिल रही है, जैसे कि उनको कुछ करने के लिए, WCD [Women and Child Development] Women and Children department है, कुछ पैसा मिलता है, २० हज़ार, ५० हज़ार, वो पैसे से वो कुछ कर सकते हैं। तो वो भी हम दिलाते हैं। और उसके साथ-साथ जो national identity है: हर sex worker के लिए जो main: important है, national identity। क्योंकि जब हम संस्था शुरू किए थे, हमारी community के पास—लगभग 90 percent के लोगों के पास—कोई national identity नहीं था। जैसे कि Ration card हो, PAN card हो, identity card हो, passport हो, या कोई भी national identity हो: नहीं था। तो हम वहाँ से शुरू करें, हर एक sex worker के पास एक ना एक identity होना ज़रूरी है। क्योंकि वो nationality के लिए बहुत important है। तो ये सोच के हमने क्या किया, हर एक को आधार कार्ड करवाया। जो आधार कार्ड का जो PA [Personal Assistant] था, हमारे संस्था ने रख के हम लोग को—लगभग हम लोग ५७०० लोगों को—आधार कार्ड दिलाया। और उसके साथ-साथ हमने trans[gender] community को भी दिलाया, ताकि ऐसा नहीं है कि, वहाँ पे भी stigma हो। जो community के लोगों को तक़लीफ हो रही है, trans-community को नहीं होनी [चाहिए], तो यह सोच के सभी को मिलाके दिलाया। तो उसमें, एक आधार कार्ड दिलाया, दूसरा ration card। Ration card में भी क्या होता है, APL card, BPL card, अन्‍त्‍योदय अन्‍न कार्ड: ये तीन कार्ड होते हैं। तो इसमें हम like mainly दो कार्ड अन्‍त्‍योदय अन्‍न कार्ड और BPL कार्ड। अन्‍त्‍योदय अन्‍न कार्ड जो होता है वह HIV-positive लोग, या कोई भी बहुत गरीब लोग रहते हैं, उनके लिए पूरा free में मिलता था, अभी तो BPL हो गया तो बस वो ही free मिलता है। दूसरा BPL कार्ड।}

And the third thing is, we approached some ministers for advocacy and to get everyone a voter ID. So almost 60 to 70% of the community members got it. We also helped some of the sex workers join other organisations for their vocational training for skill-building develop[ment], [...] like using a computer. These are some of the other things that we did. And then we work on different-different kinds of projects. For example, there was one about HIV-AIDS. So we did that. Then there was one about TIFR [Tata Institute of Fundamental Research]. TIFR focuses on reproductive health: It was about [cervical cancer](cervical cancer). The different kinds of cancer that females can get, cervical cancer, [breast cancer](breast cancer), uterine cancer: to detect that. If it was in the first or the second stage, then get them treatment. For those, who were in the third stage, we referred them to different hospitals. Another thing was PrEP [Pre-exposure prophylaxis]. We got almost 800-1000 people PrEP: [we helped give it to] female, male and transgender community. So that is a good improvement in their lives. So they don't feel as if there is no one to look after them. And to prevent them from contracting HIV. So with this thought, we gave them PrEP and spread awareness about it.^{Hindi language: ‍और तीसरा जो है, कुछ ministers के साथ advocacy किया, और सब को identity कार्ड, जो voter ID होता है, तो उसमें से लगभग ६०-७० percent लोगों को identity कार्ड दिलाया। कुछ लोगों को दूसरे-दूसरे संस्था से जोड़ा, ताकि उनका vocational training, जैसे, skill-building develop[ment] के लिए जैसे [...] computer हो, उसको जोड़ के उनको काम कराया। तो यह सब हम लोग करते हैं। और mainly अलग-अलग project लेके काम करते हैं, जैसे कि, हम लोग को HIV-AIDS का programme दिलाया था, तो HIV-AIDS का काम किए, बाद में फिर TIFR का मिला। TIFR का जो reproductive health के लिए काम करना था, जो cervical cancer को लेके, उसका काम किया। जो cancer महिलाओं को, जो योनी cancer होता है, कोई और cancer होता है, chest cancer: breast cancer होता है या गर्भाशय में कैंसर होता है, उसके लिए identify करके, first stage या second stage में जो रहते है, उनको treatment करवाया। जो third stage है, उनके लिए अलग-अलग होस्पितालों में refer किया। और तीसरा जो है: perp का। PrEP लगभग हम लोग ८०० से हज़ार लोगों को PrEP दिलवाया, जो हमारे community के लोग हैं: female, male and transgender community को। ताकि उनके life में और अच्छा बदलाव आए। ऐसा नहीं लगे कि हम लोग को देखने वाला [कोई] नहीं है: ये सोच के है उनकी ज़िंदगी में, HIV से रोक सके। HIV के साथ ना रहे; जुड़ जाए। तो ये सोच के हम लोग उनको PrEP दिलाया और उसके बारे में awareness किया।}

We are working on the COVID-19 [pandemic] that is going on now, spreading information to everyone. Telling them to maintain hygiene, to protect themselves from COVID-19. Because a lot of people have mentally changed from within. So we explained to them about COVID. And we are also running our own cooperative. Like how there are railway cooperatives, KSRTC's cooperative, doctor union's cooperative: similarly we have our sex workers' organisations cooperative. It is a public multi-purpose cooperative. So sex workers collect money and save their money: and when needed, they take out personal loans, gold loans, vehicle loans, housing loans: Now they focus mainly on giving health loans and education loans. Because these two are very important for us. This is what the community mostly needs. Because they generally don't have money saved for [looking after their] health. So for that they require loans. Other than that they require loans for their children's admission [into schools], for education and even for their [children's] marriages. So that is what we give importance to. These are the things that we do.^{Hindi language: ‍अभी जो COVID-19 चल रहा है उसके बारे में हम काम कर रहे हैं, जो information सबको फैला रहे हैं, कि hygene में रहना, COVID-19 से बच कर रहना हैं, पर अपने जीवन में कैसे अपने आप को, क्योंकि, बहुत सारे लोग, मानसिक—अंदर ही अंदर यह हो गए हैं—change हो गए हैं। बहुत लोगों में बदलाव आ गया है। तो यह सोच के हम लोग उनको यह समझाए: COVID के बारे में information दे रहे हैं। और इसके साथ-साथ हम लोग cooperative चला रहे हैं। जो अलग-अलग, जैसे कि, railway का cooperative होता है, KSRTC का cooperative होता है, doctor union का cooperative होता है: ऐसे ही हमारा sex worker organisation का एक cooperative चला रहे हैं: सार्वजनिक multi-purpose cooperative sector। तो यहाँ पर sex worker: पूरे लोग अपना पैसा जमा करते हैं, saving करते हैं, और personal loan लेते हैं, gold loan लेते हैं, vehicle loan लेते हैं, housing loan लेते हैं, अब ज़्यादा focus health loan और education loan को देते हैं। क्योंकि यह दो important है ज़रा हमारा। Community को ज़्यादा need यही रहता है। क्योंकि एक तो health के लिए वो अपना पैसा नहीं बचा के रहते, तो उसके लिए loan चाहिए। दूसरा, अपने बच्चों के admission के लिए, पढ़ाई के लिए, या कुछ, शादी के लिए चाहिए, तो उसको हम importance देते हैं। इतना काम हम कर रहे हैं।}

Sir, you said you helped around 5000 people get an Aadhaar card and a ration card. 5000 people across India, or just in Mysore?^{Hindi language: ‍Sir, आपने यह बताया कि लगभग ५००० लोगों को अपने आधार कार्ड and ration card दिलवाया। ५००० लोग पूरे भारत में, कि सिर्फ़ मैसूर में?}

Akram Pasha: Across India. No, not across India: Mysore,Mandya, Chikmagalur, Kodagu. In four districts. We [Ashodaya] operate in four districts.^{Hindi language: ‍भारत में। भारत में नहीं—पूरा—मैसूर, मांडया, चिकमगलूर, कोडगु। चार district में। हम चार district में काम करते हैं।}

So, tell me, why did you choose to be a sex worker?^{Hindi language: ‍तो आप बताइए, आपने sex worker का job क्यों चुना?}

Akram Pasha: I didn't choose. I worked as a masseur in the beginning. I used to think people come—get [services] for free—fulfils their desires for free. Anyone who would come, they used to demand—"I want this, I want that"—they would demand everything for free. Then I thought: "Why should I [do this] for free every time[?] After all, I am a human too." Yes, [while] it was a hobby, that was okay. But now everything that they would demand: whenever [they'd ask about] oral—they asked for oral sex, [they would] ask for anal sex. Everyone had very different demands. So I thought: "No. I should not do it for free". In the sense, I should provide any service only in exchange for something: that is what I thought. And with that thought, I chose this.^{Hindi language: ‍चुना नहीं। में starting में massager था। मुझे लगा, हर एक आता है—मुफ़त में ले के जाए—मुफ़त में अपने शौक़ मिटा के जाता है। कोई भी आता है, demand करता है—"यह चाहिए, वो चाहिए"—सब मुफ़त में demand करता है। तो सोचा: "क्यों इस को हम लोग मुफ़त में हर बार [करें], हम भी तो इंसान है।" हाँ शौक़ था [तब] ठीक था। लेकिन अभी, हर-एक चीज़ जो वो demand करते हैं: जब भी—oral के बारे में—oral sex पूछते हैं, anal sex पूछते हैं। सब demand—अलग-अलग demand करते हैं। तो हमने सोचा: "नहीं। ऐसा free में नहीं यह करना है, इसको हम लोग।" मतलब कुछ लेके ही कुछ service provide करना है। तो ऐसा सोच के जो हमने चुन लिया।}

And at the time whenever I used to go work somewhere, nobody would hire me [as a worker]. For example, I used to go to shops [to work]: Before that I worked in many different places. However [in that work], all I experienced was sexual harassment. Nobody showed me even an iota of respect there. And they also did not accept me. Whenever I would go to their home(s), they would take me to clean their utensils. In many places where I worked: they would ask me for a body massage. Wherever I'd go, they would invite [me] for sex. All of these things made me wonder, "I did not have a place there, why am I living in such conditions?" And thinking that I started this work [as a sex worker].^{Hindi language: ‍और उस समय, हम लोग कहीं काम [पे] जाते हैं, तो कोई हम लोग को काम नहीं देता था। जैसे की कोई, दुकान पे जाते तो वहाँ पें हम लोग के साथ: पहले बहुत बार बहुत जगह काम के लिए गया भी था। थोड़ा-बहुत दिन काम भी किया है। लेकिन, वहाँ पे हम लोग को सिवाय sexual harassment के सिवा कोई इज्ज़त नहीं मिलती है। और ना तो वो हम लोग को स्वीकार करते हैं। जब भी जाते हैं, घर में बर्तन धोने के लिए ले कर जाते थे। कहीं काम पर जाते हैं, तो उनका body-मालिश के लिए बुलाते [हैं]। कभी जाते हैं, sex के लिए आह्वान करते हैं। तो यह सब हम लोग को लगा, "ऐसे भी हम लोग को वहाँ जगह नहीं, क्यों नहीं हम लोग [...ऐसे] में जीते रहे", एसा सोच के मैंने यह काम करना शुरू [किया]।"}

How was your life before becoming a sex worker?^{Hindi language: ‍आप sex worker के पहले आपकी ज़िंदगी कैसी थी?}

Akram Pasha: It was ordinary! I was a child. I would play. At that time: I was in school too [like other kids]. I would also want to play [like other kids]. I would be with others, for a greater [amount of] time. I used to do different-different types of jobs, like I worked in a factory, I worked in a vegetable market, I traded in clothing. Then I worked for someone who manufactured cement. I worked at many places. But at none of the places I would find it there: the happiness that I now get with my community. At the other places, I never found happiness.^{Hindi language: ‍मामूली! बचपना था। खेलें-कूदें। [त]ब हम लोग: मैं भी school भर रहा था। मैं भी खेलना चाहता था। सबके साथ रहता था ज़्यादा। अलग-अलग काम करता था, जैसे कि factory में काम किया, सब्ज़ी मंडी में काम किया, कपड़े का व्यापार किया। फिर बाद में जा के जो सूखी मिट्टी बनाता था [...] वहाँ पे काम किया। सब जगह किया। लेकिन कहाँ भी मुझे उतना यह नहीं मिला, जो अभी मैं अभी हमारे समुदाय के साथ मैं जितना ख़ुश हूँ। वहाँ पे, मुझे ख़ुशी या, कोई भी मुझे यह नहीं मिला उतना।}

These days, I mean, when corona[virus] wasn't spreading, how was a normal day for you?^{Hindi language: ‍आज-कल, मतलब जब corona[virus] नहीं चल रहा था, तब आपके लिए एक normal day कैसा लगता था?}

Akram Pasha: It was fantastic! In the morning, how everyone gets up, goes to office, maintains their daily routine, have breakfast then go to office, have lunch there, and come back home in the evening: We also used to go in the morning and come back in the evening. Since the time corona[virus] has been spreading: all of these activities have completely stalled. If I think about corona[virus], I get goosebumps all over my body [: it causes chills down my spine]. Corona[virus] has caused just so much problems, it has adversely affected our entire community.^{Hindi language: ‍एक-दम बढ़िया था! सुबह, हर कोई जैसे कि उठता है, सुबह office जाता है, अपना daily routine कैसे maintain करता था, breakfast सुबह फिर office जाना, फिर lunch करना, फिर शाम को घर आना: ऐसे ही, हम भी सुबह जाते, और शाम को वापस घर आते हैं। जब से corona[virus] शुरू हुआ है, तब से हमारी ज़िंदगी में तो एकदम [stall] हो गया है। corona[virus] को ले के तो बहुत सारा, अगर याद किया, तो, मेरे बदन में कांटे आते हैं। जैसे कि बहुत सारा problem हुआ है, coorna[virus] की वजह से। हमारे समुदाय के ऊपर बहुत सारा असर पड़ा है।}

What are the things that you like about your job, and what [are the things] you do not like?^{Hindi language: ‍आपको आपके काम के बारे में सबसे ज़्यादा क्या चीज़ पसंद है और क्या चीज़ बिलकुल [भी] नहीं पसंद हैं?}

Akram Pasha: Mostly, I like solving other people's problems. Whatever they may face, let it be, police harassment; or be it harassment from their family members at their home—So to go, stop those things, and bring them into their happy lives—I really like that. And secondly, those people who are HIV-positive: they become closeted [and they distance themselves]. So to bring them new life, I meant, to bring them to their former lives [before contracting HIV], [to help them] to live like everyone else is living, to show them path to this life, I really like that. Because I really like to bring changes in people['s lives].^{Hindi language: ‍ज़्यादा जो कुछ भी है, मुझे लोगों का जो problem होता है, उसको solve करना। उनको कुछ भी, जैसे कि, police harrasment हो, या उनके घर में, family में उनके साथ harrasment चल रहा है, तो उसको जाके रोकना और, और उनकी ख़ुशहाल ज़िंदगी में उनको लाना, वो मुझे बहुत अच्छा लगता है। और दूसरी चीज़ है, लोग स्वास्थ्य को ले के, जो HIV-positive हो जाता है, तो वो अपने-आप को जो, अलग तरीक़े से अपने-आप को बंद करना चाहता है। तो उसको हम वापस नई ज़िंदगी लाना, मतलब उसको मामूली ज़िंदगी में लाना, सबकी तरह जैसे [...] लोग जैसे जी रहे हैं, ऐसे जीने के लिए रास्ता दिखाना, वो मुझे बहुत अच्छा लगता है। क्योंकि लोगों का बदलाव लाना मुझे बहुत पसंद है।}

But what I do not like is: The stigma people hold [against sex workers], when they discriminate, [...], [to divide] on the basis of caste and community, the way the judge people based on their clothes, or to show them a finger: these are the things I do not like.^{Hindi language: ‍लेकिन मुझे जो अच्छा नहीं लगता है: जो लोगों stigma करते हैं, discrimination करते हैं, [...] जाट-पाट करते हैं, लोगों के कपड़े को देखके तोलते हैं, या उनका जीवन को लेकर तोलते हैं, या उन पर उंगली दिखाते हैं, तो ये मुझे बिलकुल पसंद नहीं है।}

Do you make enough that you can earn your daily bread?^{Hindi language: ‍क्या आप इतना पैसा बना पाते है कि आप आपकी रोज़ी-रोटी कमा पाएँ?}

Akram Pasha: There are no difficulties. Whatever I make [from my earnings], I eat.^{Hindi language: ‍कोई दिक़्क़त नहीं [है]। जो कुछ भी मिलता है वो खा लेते हैं।}

So you are telling that for the last 18 years you have AIDS.^{Hindi language: ‍आप बता रहे थे कि आपको, कितने, पिछले १८ साल से AIDS है।}

Akram Pasha: I didn't get AIDS. I contracted HIV virus.^{Hindi language: ‍AIDS नहीं हुआ। HIV-virus हुआ।}

So were condoms not [readily] available at that time?^{Hindi language: ‍तो उस ज़माने में condoms available नहीं होते थे क्या, sir?}

Akram Pasha: Available: no, it was available, but we had the information that time. We didn't see many clients. We would engage with them differently, like for example, using hands. And whatever it was, we didn't do sex [that time]. Because it took us 4-5 years just to come out of the fact [we've contracted HIV]. So when our organisation was formed, since then we have been getting condoms for free.^{Hindi language: ‍Available; नहीं, होते थे लेकिन उस समय ज़्यादा जानकारी तो थी हम लोगों को। ज़्यादा client नहीं करते थे। Client को कि अलग तरीक़े से, हाथ से करके आ जाते थे। और दूसरा जो भी है, हम लोग वो नहीं करते थे: sex। क्योंकि उस समय हमारा, status से आने में ही, हम लोग को ४-५ साल लग गए। तो जब तक हमारा organisation आ गया था, जो अशोदया, उस समय हम लोग को कंडोम फ़्री में मिलना शुरू हो गया था।}

How did the last three months go for you?^{Hindi language: ‍आपके लिए पिछले तीन महीने कैसे गए हैं?}

Akram Pasha: Totally: totally [different]. I had never thought the situation would be so horrible. I hadn't thought we would have to lock ourselves in our own homes. Or to isolate ourselves from others. I have never thought that. Because I have suffered a lot. We had nothing to eat. We are not rich, we han't saved any money. What about we made in the day, we used to eat that. What ever people gave, we ate that. There are so many nights where we went to bed empty-stomach. Our life was drastically different. At that time nobody would even give us some money on loan. "How are these people going to return the loan", they used to think. Most of the shops were closed. Any shop owner, whom we knew, was also closed. Otherwise we would have asked them to lend [some groceries]. Whatever was available in 30 to 60 minutes we had to buy it. So within that time we had together money and go buy: that was difficult to do. And other thing was about health. I had a lot of problems because of my health. I am a diabetic patient, And I'm also have [high] blood pressure. And on the top of that, I am living with HIV virus. To live with all of these three: it's not easy! Every month I require ₹2000-₹2500 for my treatment: for my medicines. To you have money for that was not easy. I used to have medicines on alternate days: I mean, the medicine I took today, I wouldn't take it tomorrow. If I had a surge, what will I do [if I run out of medicine]? So I also had to embrace this reality.^{Hindi language: ‍एकदम...एकदम [अलग]। बहुत ही अलग तरीक़े से। जैसे हम सोचे भी नहीं थे, इतना बुरा हाल आएगा। मतलब हम लोग को अपने आपको अपने घरों में बंद रखना पड़ेगा। या सब लोगों से दूर रहना पड़ेगा। हम ये नहीं सोचें थे। क्योंकि बहुत ही दिक्कतें झेली है। जो हमारा खाना-पीना: मतलब हमारे लिए खाने को भी यह नहीं था। क्योंकि हम लोग पैसे वाले नहीं है, तो हम लोग [ने] पैसा कमा के नहीं रखा था। जो हम [पैसे] लाते थे [उससे] खा लेते थे। [...] जोजो और लोग दिये हैं वो खाए है। और कितनी रात भूखे भी सोए हैं। बहुत ही अलग तरीक़े से गुज़री है ज़िंदगी। क्योंकि उस समय कोई भी हमें पैसा देने वाला भी पैसा नहीं देता था। "क्योंकि आगे ये कैसे पैसा वापस लौटाएँगे", ये उनकी सोच थी। और दूसरा जो था, पूरे दुकानदार बंद थे। कोई भी हमारा पहचान का दुकान खुला नहीं था, ताकि हम लोग वहाँ पे जाके उधार लेकर खाएं। और जो मिलता था, आधा-एक घंटे में हम लोग को ख़रीदना था। तो आधा-एक घंटे में हम पैसे जोड़ कर के, जाके ख़रीदने में दिक़्क़त होती थी। और दूसरी चीज़ है, स्वास्थ्य को लेकर, मतलब हमारा health को लेकर बहुत दिक़्क़त हुई थी। जैसे कि, अभी में daibetic patient हूँ, और blood pressue का patient हूँ, और HIV virus के साथ जी रहा हूँ। इन तीनों के साथ जी रहा हूँ तो आसान नहीं है यह! हमारे लिए हर महीना लगभग दो से ढाई हज़ार रूपये treatment का चाहिए, दवाई के लिए चाहिए। वो पैसा जुगाड़ करना भी दिक़्क़त था। मैं एक दिन हाँ एक दिन ना लूँ। मतलब आज जो गोली खाया, कल नहीं खाता था। क्योंकी surge आइ तो कल कौन दिलाएगा? परसों खाता था। तो इस तरीक़े से उसके साथ भी समझौता करना पड़ा।}

And the other thing was: No doctor in any government hospital was going to check us. No matter what we suffered from, we had to endure it. If my stomach was hurting, I had to bear it. If I had a fever, I had to live with it. If I had a skin problem: same. You know, I had three rashes on my body. For three months, I lived with those rashes which got a big infection. No after three months I am finally getting it treated. Because back then I did not have money to buy medicine, there was no doctor to show the problems. Those people who used to know me and used to call me, they all have stopped. Everyone is afraid of coronavirus. If I call them up then they hang up the phone. They don't talk to me. These are the changes [I see in people].^{Hindi language: ‍और दूसरा जो है, कोई डॉक्टर, कोई डॉक्टर government hospital मैं हम लोग को देखने नहीं वाला था। तो उस समय, हम लोग जितना भी तक़लीफ़ होता था, अंदर ही सेहता था। जब पेट में दर्द हो, उसको भी सहन करो, fever हो, उसको भी सहन लो। Skin-problem हो तो उसको भी ऐसे ही सब। तुमको मालूम है, मेरे तीन rashes हो गए थे। तीन महीने: मुझे तीन महीने उस rashes के साथ: इतना बड़ा infection हो गया था। फिर तीन महीने के बाद अभी treatment करवा रहा हूँ। क्योंकि [...] पैसा नहीं था दवाई लेने के लिए; डॉक्टर नहीं था [...] दिखाने के लिए। ये भी समस्या थी। हर दूसरा जो था, जितने लोग हमें पहचानते थे, जितने लोग हम लोग को call करते थे, अभी पूरे लोग बंद कर दिए। सब लोगों में डर आ गया, corona[virus] को लेके। अब हम लोग बात करेंगे उनको तो phone काट देते हैं। हमसे बात नहीं करते हैं। यह सब बदलाव आ गया।}

What were the precautions that you took in the last three months, so you don't contract corona[virus]?^{Hindi language: ‍पिछले तीन महीने में अपनी किस किस तरह के precaution लिए, कि आपको corona[virus] ना लग जाए?}

Akram Pasha: I took my own precautions: for example, our organisation had told us what we should do. And I also informed others how we should use masks. And to sanitise our hands using a sanitiser. Every hour, wash hands with soap. If you had gone outdoors, use soap and bathe immediately. And to maintain distance from everyone. Like you should keep 2m distance. And if anyone was suffering from cough, cold or fever, So we would advise them about their health. We will motivate them to go to hospital. These are the things we did. Whenever I used to go I would go wearing a mask. I would use sanitiser often. So to even buy a sanitiser do you know what I did? I had to sell a ring that are used to wear on my finger to buy sanitiser. It was a silver ring, I got ₹200 selling it. But using that I bought two sanitisers. Health is important. You have to do all of these things also for health.^{Hindi language: ‍हम ख़ुद precaution लिए, जैसे कि, हमारे organisation ने हमें बताया था कैसे रहना है। और हम लोग दूसरों को भी बताया, जो अपने-आप को कैसे mask [डाल] के रहना है। Sanitiser से बार-बार हाथ wash करना है। Soap से हर एक घंटे में हाथ धोना है। कहीं बाहर जाके आएंगे तो, तो उसको साबुन के पानी में डाल के सीधे पानी-नहाना है। और किसी के साथ ज़्यादा दूर से अंतर रखना है, जैसे दो मीटर [का] अंतर रखना है। [...] और कोई भी patient है जो सर्दी, झुकाम, बुखार: उसको जो health के लिए advise करना है, हॉस्पिटल जाने के लिए motivation करना है। ये सब हम लोग करते थे। हर कहीं भी जाते हैं तो mask डाल कर जाते हैं, sanitiser का इस्तेमाल बार-बार करते हैं। तो sanitiser लेने के लिए भी, आपको बताऊँ मैं क्या किया? हाथ का अंगूठी बेचकर मैंने sanitiser लिया घर के लिए। वो चाँदी का था [...] 200 रुपये में गया। लेकिन उतने में ही मैंने दो sanitiser ख़रीदा। तो स्वास्थ्य ज़रूरी है। इसके लिए यह भी करना पड़ता है।}

Did you receive the N95 mask or not?^{Hindi language: ‍आपको N-९५ mask मिला कि नहीं मिला?}

Akram Pasha: No no. I didn't get. We didn't get any mask: We didn't get anything for free. The mask we had, we made it out at homes. And then there was another one which I got from the market. It cost around ₹30-₹40. Certain medical shop they would sell a fire up your mask for ₹30. So initially we bought that mask being ₹30. But then it got dirty. So then I thought I'll just make it at home. So we made it at our homes with her own hands and stitched it together. I made it using a cloth and cotton. I used that. Every day I would clean it and use a different one the next day. And on the third day I used the one which I had cleaned. So these are the things that I did for my own safety.^{Hindi language: ‍नहीं नहीं। नहीं मिला। हम लोग को कोई mask: मुफ़्त का कुछ भी नहीं मिला हम लोग को। जो mask था, वह हम लोग अपना घर में ही बनाया, और दूसरा जो था, एक बाज़ार में लिया था, ३०-४० का। तो medical [दुकान] में, ३० रुपये का वो भी, और पाँच रुपये का mask ३० रुपये में बिकता था। तो उस mask को हमने तीस-तीस रुपये देकर शुरू में लिया, फिर गंदा हो गया, फिर हमने सोचा घर में ही बनाएंगे। तो घर में ही हमने उसको हाथों से सिलाई किया—कपड़े का—साफ़ कपड़े कॉटन का। उसका इस्तेमाल करते हैं। हर दिन उसको धोने डालते हैं और दूसरे दिन दूसरा इस्तेमाल करता है। फिर तीसरे दिन धुला हुआ उसको डालते हैं। तो इस तरीक़े से हमने अपने आप को safety किया।}

Nobody gave N-95 mask, Or sanitiser or even a hand wash. The government give us a kit via WCD. That was the only thing that we got. It contained: 5kg rice, 1kg oil, 2kg wheat, 1kg pulses.^{Hindi language: ‍N-९५ mask नहीं मिला, sanitiser नहीं मिला, दूसरा handwash के लिए कोई नहीं मिला। जो kit था, जो सरकारी है वो WCD की तरफ़ से एक kit मिला। जो सिर्फ़ एक ही वो: पाँच kg चावल, एक kg तेल, दो kg आटा, एक kg दाल दिया था। तीन महीने में! बस उतना ही मिला।}

You had financial difficulties all this time in the last three months?^{Hindi language: ‍पूरे तीन महीने में आपको आर्थिक दिक़्क़तें रही?}

Akram Pasha: A lot, yes. As I said, I can't even tell you how much problems we had faced. Let it be getting the medicines or any other thing, It was extremely difficult to get that. We didn't have enough money which caused the problems. And then nobody would come to see me because I live far from others. They know about me. But how are they going to come see me?^{Hindi language: ‍बहुत बहुत। बताया ना मैं, बोल ही नहीं सकते हैं, हमें बहुत दिक्कतें आयी। दवाई लेने के से हर एक चीज़ से दिक़्क़त थी। जो पैसा नहीं होने की वजह से दिक़्क़त थी। और कोई भी हमारा, अपना ही नहीं आता कि देखता था, क्योंकि हम सबसे बहुत दूर रहते हैं। मालूम है उनको हमारे बारे में। तो कोई हमको आके कहाँ से देखेगा?}

Are you married?^{Hindi language: ‍क्या आप शादीशुदा हैं?}

Akram Pasha: No.^{Hindi language: ‍नहीं।}

Did you get any financial help from anyone in your family in the last three months or not?^{Hindi language: ‍क्या आपको आर्थिक सहायता आपके कोई भी परिवार वालों से मिली [या] नहीं मिली पिछले तीन महीने?}

Akram Pasha: No. Because my mum and dad do not accept me. That is a different thing. And I do not go to their place. So whatever I get, I get from the community. I live with my community.^{Hindi language: ‍नहीं. क्योंकि मेरे mummy pappa मुझे स्वीकार नहीं करते हैं, वो अलग है। और मैं उनके यहाँ नहीं जाता। तो मेरा समुदाय जो भी है, हमें मिलता है हमारे समुदाय से। हम अपने community के साथ रहते हैं।}

Did you try to find some work at any place in the last few days?^{Hindi language: ‍आपने पिछले तीन महीनों में कहीं और पे काम ढूंढने की कोशिश की?}

Akram Pasha: Yes I went to many households to wash that utensils, And I also did the cleaning work, and tried other things. They would keep me one day, Fire the next day. "Since you are an outsider, We are scared to be made contact corona [from you], so." Then I also went to do the gardening work for one or two days. Or maintain the plants and trees. They fired me from there too. Saying, "No no, we do not require [a gardener]. This is not an important thing right now for us." I have also tried distributing bonda, vada, but there was nobody who would buy to eat it.^{Hindi language: ‍हाँ बहुत घरों में बर्तन धोने के लिए, और साफ़-सफ़ाई का काम भी किया है और कोशिश भी किया है। एक दिन रखा, दूसरे दिन भेज दिया। "क्योंकि तुम बाहर से आते हो, हमें corona[virus] का दर है, इसलिए"। फिर बाद में माली का काम करने के लिए गया है एक दो दिन। जो पेड़-पौधे होते हैं उनको साफ़ करने के लिए, वहाँ पे भी भगा दिया। "नहीं, हमें नहीं चाहिए। अभी हम लोग को [ये] करना ज़रूरी नहीं है" बोलके। और फिर, कुछ जैसे की बोंड़ा, वड़ा, उसको भी डालने का कोशिश किया: कोई खाने वाला ही नहीं था।}

When did you first hear about coronavirus?^{Hindi language: ‍आपने corona[virus] वायरस के बारे में सबसे पहले कब सुना?}

Akram Pasha: When [Indian Prime Minister Narendra] Modi Announced a public curfew back in [March], That is when we got to know more about it. I knew a bit about Corona[virus] are used to hear about it back in February. But when curfew was in place then the fear started spreading. "Oh, corona is coming". And then when curfew started and the lockdown started, we learnt about [the coronavirus case in] Nanjangud. Then we got to know more about corona[virus]. Me had a meeting the day before. One 20th, we had a group meeting where we discussed what we should do, how we should do. Then everything closed. Since then, we never got to meet each other. Not a single meeting took place. It has been three-four months since then. Since there neither we could go out properly not could we all come and sit together for discussion.^{Hindi language: ‍जब २१ को [नरेंद्र] मोदी जी ने बंद कराया था, जनता कर्फ्यू करवाया था, तभी हमें ज़्यादातर पता चला। कोरोना के बारे में मुझे, मैं थोड़ा बहुत सुनता था। फ़रवरी में। लेकिन जब लॉक बंद करवाया, जब कर्फ्यू करवाया, जब भी हम लोग डर शुरू हो गया, "ओह ये corona आ रहा है।" फिर उसके बाद धीरे-धीरे से कर्फ्यू शुरू हो गया है, लॉक डाउन हो गया है, लॉकडाउन में नंजनगुड के पास कोरोना के बारे में मालूम हुआ। तो जब हमने को corona के बारे में ज़्यादा information और उसी समय हम लोग, पूरे मिल के बात किए उसके बारे में। एक दिन पहले बात किए थे हम corona के बारे में। जैसा 21 को कर्फ्यू हुआ था तो बीस को हमारा एक ग्रुप मीटिंग हुआ था। ग्रुप मीटिंग में हम बात किए थे। कि इसके लिए क्या करना है कैसे करना है लेके। तो ये एकदम बंद हो गया। आज तक हम लोग फिर नहीं मिले। और एक मीटिंग नहीं हुआ। तीन-चार महीने हो गए हैं हमारे। अभी तक हमारा mobilisation या एक साथ बैठ के बात करना नहीं हुआ।}

So when did you realise corona[virus] is going to be extremely dreadful?^{Hindi language: ‍तो आपके कब पता चला कि corona[virus] जो है वो काफ़ी भयानक होने वाला है?}

Akram Pasha: [I had] realised during the time of the [initial] lockdown. When the lockdown had started, [I] had figured out at that moment. And a lot of people came from Italy, we used to see the news: people who were dying in Italy, [the] USA, China: so I had a lot of doubt at that time. One was: both corona[virus] and HIV [to contract them] both: both were combined together and [was being] spread. There were even more fears, and at that time, we had a lot of miscommunication. That time, our fears were different, and we had thought [about this] very differently.^{Hindi language: ‍Lockdown के समय में ही पता चला। जब Lockdown हुआ, उसी समय पता चला। और बहुत सारे लोग जो इटली से आया, जो न्यूज़ देखते थे हम लोग: इटली, USA, China में जो लोग मर रहे थे: तो उस समय बहुत सारा doubt था। एक तो ये था: corona और HIV डोनो एक साथ है: जो दोनों को एक साथ मिलाकर बनाया, virus को, virus को छोड़ा जा रहा है। तो और भी बहुत सारा डर हुआ, और उस समय में, हम लोग के दिमाग़ में बहुत सारा miscommunication था। बहुत हि उसके बारे में अलग अलग डर, और सोच ही अलग थी हमारी।}

Did you not even get a chance to work as a sex worker during the lockdown?^{Hindi language: ‍क्या आपको lockdown के समय में sex worker का काम करने का मौक़ा भी नहीं मिला?}

Akram Pasha: No, I used to find some opportunities. Clients in the neighbourhood would call me, But I couldn't go. Because first of all there was no place to do it. Secondly the police would hit us with the laathi. We couldn't go outside. They had completely sealed down this area. We could hardly go out of our homes. We could only go during the times the shops would be open, Buy the things from the shops, And even if we were a little bit late the police want to beat us. We had all of those fears. At that time, we were scared of the police beating us That we won't even remember [sex work].^{Hindi language: ‍नहीं मौक़ा तो मिलता था: आस-पड़ोस के लोग ऐसे client बुला रहे थे, लेकिन हम नहीं जा पाएँ। क्योंकि एक तो जगह नहीं था, दूसरा, पुलिस वाले इतना डंडा मार रहे थे, बाहर निकाल के नहीं जा सकते थे। हमारे यहाँ पे तो sealdown कर दिया था पूरा। तो हम लोग को घर के बाहर हिल भी नहीं सकते थे। सिर्फ़ दुकान के समय में जाना और दुकान का सामान ख़रीद के लाना, और थोड़ा भी देर से हम आ रहे हैं, तो हम लोग को लाठी का मार पड़ता था। तो ये डर था बहुत। उस समय पुलिस की मार से बहुत दर था तो याद ही नहीं आएगा।}

You had mentioned there is a union of yours in Mysore.^{Hindi language: ‍आपने बताया कि मैसूर में आप लोगों का एक union है।}

Akram Pasha: No, it is not a union. It is a body where we all have taken a membership collectively. And we live together. And, whenever there is a problem, we raise our voices together, we fight it and we also find solutions to it.^{Hindi language: ‍जी। Union नहीं है, हमारा संविधान है। इस संविधान में हम एक साथ मेंबरशिप लिए हैं, और एक साथ रहते हैं। और कहीं भी हमारी कोई भी समस्या है, तो एक साथ आवाज़ उठाते हैं। उसको लड़ते हैं। और उसको: समस्या का परिहार भी ढूंढते हैं।}

For the COVID-19 problem, what did the community provide? Any [information] on how to live?^{Hindi language: ‍COVID-19 के लिए, [इस] समस्या ने: क्या समुदाय [ने] दिया? कि किस तरह से आपको रहना है?}

Akram Pasha: They couldn't give anything at all. Because even their lives became a living nightmare, Even they couldn't get out of their homes. Via our organisation we went out and spoke to some people including some donors. And with that help we got some food for others. And also for those who are HIV-positive, we delivered medicines to their homes. We also distributed some calcium, Paracetamol, rantac, baralgan for a fever to the community. Whenever they require it, they can use the medicines. So we arranged for the food and medicines for the sex workers community. We delivered them food and also provided them counselling to keep their self-confidence up. That entire self-confidence had vanished. They were very frightened, lost, they had no jobs left. Many were ready to commit suicide. So we spoke to them and explained, and provided counselling, and tried to fulfil their needs. This is what we did at the organisational level. Most of the people couldn't go out. Me and 8 to 10 people did some work voluntarily. We went to the police station to request a permission, We got a pass. And using that pass, We were able to deliver medicines door to door. And if someone required medical help, we would contact the doctor, tell them the symptoms on phone. And the doctor would prescribe the medicines and send it via WhatsApp. Using the same pass, we would go to a pharmacy, and get the prescription. Because we did all of these things, the community didn't suffer as much [as otherwise it could have].^{Hindi language: ‍वो तो कुछ नहीं दे पाए, क्योंकि उनका जीवन ही बहुत ही नर्क हो गया था, जो वो भी घर से बाहर नहीं निकल रहे थे। कुछ लोग से हमने, संस्था से जाके कुछ लोगों से बात किया, donor से बात किया, उनके ज़रिए उन लोगों को कुछ food दिलवाया, और उसके साथ साथ हमने जो भी [HIV-]positive होता है उसके लिए दवाई घर-घर जाके हमने पहुंचाया। और दूसरा जो है उनके लिए calcium, और जो side-affect के किए जो होता है, fever के किए paracetamol, rantac, baralgan: medicine को हमने ले लिया और सभी community को थोड़ा-थोड़ा बाँटा। उनको कोई भी समस्या हो तो थोड़ा बहुत इस्तेमाल कर सके। तो ये food और medicine का बंदोबस्त करवाया। और बाहर से खाना पहुँचाया। और ज़्यादातर counselling की वजह से उनका आत्मविश्वास बढ़ता रहा है। क्योंकि उनका आत्मविश्वास पूरा सो गया था। तो उसने बहुत बहुत डरे हुए थे, बहके हुए थे, रोज़गार नहीं पा रहे थे। बहुत लोग आत्महत्या करने के लिए तैयार हो गए थे। तो उन लोगों को समझा समझा के counselling करके, उनकी क्या need है, उसको जाके कोशिश करते थे। तो ये हमने संस्था की ओर से किया। समिति के लोग कुछ कर नहीं पाए क्योंकि वो बाहर ही नहीं निकल पाते थे। हम वहाँ पे काम कर रहे थे आठ-दस लोग, voluntary, बाहर police station में permission लिया pass बना लिया: फिर हम लोग जाके, पास के ज़रिए घर-घर जाके medicine distribute करना और उनको कोई समस्या है तो डॉक्टर से बात करके। हमारे जो डॉक्टर था फ़ोन पे ही हम से बात करके medicine वो WhatsApp में भेजता था। तो वो medicine को हम medical में लेके देते थे। क्योंकि वो हमारे पास pass available था। तो उसमें हमारे community के लोगों को ज़्यादा दिक़्क़त नहीं आयी।}

When did COVID-19 start to change your life?^{Hindi language: ‍COVID-19 की वजह से आपके जीवन में कब्ज़े परिवर्तन शुरू हो गया था?}

Akram Pasha: After February 18. After listening to [Prime Minister Narendra] Modi's address to the country, our life became a living hell. That night, I remember, everybody was going, paying loads and loads of buying groceries. And we were left wondering what is going on! How is this the reality? If this is how it turns out. And then as the time went by there was version one version to version three of the lockdown. I am a Muslim. We could not go to the mosque to offer namaz for Eid. Nor could we fast. And we could not even celebrate the Eid. This was an extremely bad day for us. We call it a black day. All the days in the last three months of the lockdown they're just black days for us.^{Hindi language: ‍February 18 के बाद से। मोदी का जो भाषण था, भाषण ने ही हमारा नर्क़ की ज़िंदगी शुरू हो गई। उस रात सभी जाके पैसे दे देकर लोग राशन ला रहे थे, हम सोच रहे थे कि ये सब क्या हो रहा है कैसे हो रहा है, कि सचमुच में ऐसा ही होगा कि नहीं। फिर धीरे धीरे से v1, v2, v3 lockdown करके आया। हम लोग मुसलमान हैं, हम लोग को ईद का नमाज़ पढ़ने के लिए मस्जिद जाना नहीं हुआ, या तो रोज़ा रखने हुआ, ना ईद मनाने हुआ। ये सब हमारे लिए बहुत हि ख़राब दिन बोलते हैं हम लोग, black day, हमारे लिए पूरे ये तीन महीने lockdown के black day थे। बहुत सारे लोग भी मर रहे थे, तो ये सब सोच सोच के, हमारे लिए ये day ही ख़राब निकलें।}

Did anyone outside the community: any NGO or government help you?^{Hindi language: ‍आपको community के अलावा NGO या government से और कोई भी सहायता मिली?}

Akram Pasha: No. Not even a little bit. They just gave us some soap to keep ourselves clean. They gave us Dettol. Except for that, nobody even bothered to ask if we're alive or dead. Nobody asked and nobody wants to. They must be thinking we [sex workers] are a liability on this Earth, and we are better off extinct. They left us to our sufferings. Now also, I'm saying, you are the first person who reached out to us asking how we are, and what is going on, how you are feeling within. You are the only one who at least asked so that these problems get reported. Except for you nobody was going to ask, and nobody was going to say: "These are the facalities, [you can] avail these".^{Hindi language: ‍नहीं। ज़रा भी नहीं मिला। हम लोगों को कुछ soap दे कर भेजें हुए हैं, साफ़ सुथरे रहने के लिए। Dettol soap भेजा है। उसके अलावा कोई; कोई-कोई भी आज तक नहीं पूछा आप कैसे हैं, आप ज़िंदा है या आप मर गये हैं। कोई नहीं पूछा और कुछ पूछना भी नहीं चाह रहा है। वैसे ही सोचते हैं हम बोझ है धरती का, हम लोग ख़त्म हो जाए यह सोचा होगा, तो छोड़ दिया हमें हमारे हाल पे। अभी भी, मैं यही बोल रहा हूँ, आप पहले इंसान हो जो चार महीनों में बैठके तुम्हारा: तुम कैसे है, दिल में क्या हो रहा है पूछा, आप ही पहले इंसान हो। जो हम लोग को at least पूछ रहे हैं, कि इसको बाहर ला सके। तो ये बात: आप अकेले हों जो हमें पूछे, दूसरा कोई पूछने वाला भी नहीं था, या कोई बताने वाला भी नहीं था: "ये सेवाएँ है, इनको ले लो"।}

Whenever all the family is not with us, So how can we expect the world or even the community. See, a human does not really need much:In their daily routine what they expect is food, a place to stay, and peace. These are the three things. And the other thing is, I'm not talking just about myself but the other members of our community as well. Some have good families. Almost 80% sex workers family do not accept them. Whenever the family gets to know, [the sex worker] is kicked out of their home. It is not even a question to go back to the family. This is what happens. So how do we expect the world to accept sex workers? When we wanted money to distribute [medicines], the family would say, "Why do you need it? You have a lot of money that you have looted from other people, or made it unethically." That is what they say. What we make is unethical [to them]. But what they do is ethical. How so? On what basis can you differentiate? That would really make us angry, but we could not vent out the anger due to the lockdown.^{Hindi language: ‍ख़ुद का family ही हमारे साथ नहीं था, तो समाज और संस्था कहाँ से आएगा? देखो इंसान कुछ नहीं चाहता है: अपने daily routine में जो चाहिए एक तो खाना, रहना, और अच्छा सुकून चाहता है। तो ये तीन है। और दूसरा जो है, care करने वाले अपने ख़ुद के लोग ही हमसे दूर है, ये मैं अपने अकेले की बात नहीं कर रहा हूँ, जो हमारे बहुत सारे समुदाय के लोग है, उनकी बात कर रहा हूँ। और कुछ लोगों की फ़ैमिली अच्छी है। ८०% के family में कोई स्वीकरता नहीं मिलती है। क्योंकि जब पता चल जाता है, तो हम लोग को घर से बाहर निकाला जाता है। फिर वापस घर में रहना है तो दूर की बात, सोच भी नहीं सकते। तो ऐसा होता है। तो फिर समाज कहाँ से स्वीकार करेगा? जब [दवाइयां] distribute बात करते थे, बोलते थे: "तुमको क्या काम है? तुमने जो लूटे हैं, लोगों से, कमाया है हराम का पैसा, बहुत सारा पैसा है आपके पास।" ऐसा बोलते थे। हम लोग कमाएं: हराम का पैसा, वो लोग कमाएं: अच्छा पैसा। ऐसा कैसा? पैसे में कैसे अंतर है? ग़ुस्सा भी आ रहा था, लेकिन lockdown की वजह से ग़ुस्सा नहीं कर पाते थे।}

Have you resumed your work?^{Hindi language: ‍क्या अभी आपने काम शुरू कर दिया है वापस?}

Akram Pasha: No. We have not resumed it now. All of our work is suspended till August. After August we plan on sanitising, and if we receive any form of relief, we should be able to continue. Right now everybody is frightened. So to avoid any further complications, we have halted everything. No we just contact each other via cellphones. Like for example to provide counselling or to get them any essential supply that they require, and if the doctor was available, they would discuss the problem with the doctor on the phone and ask for the treatment. You will be diagnosed just by saying what was happening to you. You couldn't go show your symptoms. You are back in the day we used to fight: We did not want a doctor Who was not ready to touch or meet us in order to examine us. But now, COVID[-19] Has made us desperate. It has made so many people's lives miserable beyond belief. It is like the thorn of a gum tree. Whenever you pick yourself with that thorn, it secrets venom. This is much worse than that. I'm not just talking about my life, but everyone's life. Poor, old-aged people: Everyone's lives are not in a bad condition. But for us sex workers, it is in a different way. Our lifestyle has been completely disrupted. It is snatched away all of our happiness.^{Hindi language: ‍नहीं। अभी भी आज तक हमने काम नहीं किया है। August तक भी हमने अपना operation close किया है। August के बाद हम उसको sanitise करके अगर relief मिलेगा तो शुरू करेंगे। क्योंकि अभी भी डर है। तो कहीं दिक़्क़त न हो इसके लिए हमने बंद किया है। अभी हम सिर्फ़ फ़ोनों में contact करते हैं। जैसे कि, counselling करना, उनको जो चीज़ चाहिए, वो दिलाना, अगर doctor available है, जो भी कोई दिक़्क़त है तो phone में ही contact करके treatment लेते हैं। सिर्फ़ diagnose बोल के लेना पड़ता है, दिखा के नहीं लेना पड़ता। कभी कभी यही fight हम कर रहे थे, की कोई doctor हमें छूता नहीं, देखता नहीं, ऐसा doctor हमें नहीं चाहिए, ऐसा बोलते थे। लेकिन COVID ने हम लोग को मजबूर कर दिया है। COVID बहुत लोगों की ज़िंदगी नर्क बना दिया। ये कीकर का काँटा है ये: काँटा चुभता है ना तो अंदर ज़हर फैल जाता है। कीकर के काँटे से भी भयंकर चीज़ है ये। हम अपनी life के बारे में नहीं बोल रहे, हर एक की life में: हरेक ग़रीब, बुद्धे, बुजुर्ग: सबकी ज़िंदगी में भी यह बहुत ख़राब हाल है, लेकिन हमारे लिए अलग तरीक़े का है। हमारा lifestyle सब बंद हो गया। हमारी ख़ुशियाँ ही छीन ली।}

Before COVID-19, could you easily avail any medical help that you needed? Or were there any hurdles?^{Hindi language: ‍COVID के पहले जो आपको medical help, जो आपको सहायता चाहिए रहती थी, क्या आपको वो आसानी से मिल पाती थी? या आपको कोई दिक़्क़त आती थी?}

Akram Pasha: Where? In hospitals?^{Hindi language: ‍कहाँ पे? हॉस्पिटलों में?}

No, we were not allowed to enter the hospitals. There was only one ART centre. We would just go there. We had to cover our mouths, hands, and legs. They had allocated numbers. Using that number, one would go get the medicines and come back. We would get only two to three minutes there. There was no OPD centre. There was no consultation doctor. There was no admission. They had shut the gate.^{Hindi language: ‍नहीं हॉस्पिटल में तो हमें entry हि नहीं था ना। फिर एक ही ART centre एक ही था। वो भी किया था, हम लोग को मुँह ढक के, हाथ ढक के, पैर ढक के जाना हैं, और हम लोग को सिर्फ़ नम्बर बोल के, दवाई ले कर वापस आ जाना है। सिर्फ़ 2-3 मिनट ही हम लोग को वहाँ पे रहने का मौक़ा मिलता था। क्योंकि कोई OPD सेंटर नहीं था। कोई consultation doctor नहीं था। या कोई admission नहीं था। मतलब बाहर से ही gate बंद कर दिया था।}

Was this before COVID, or during?^{Hindi language: ‍ये COVID के पहले था, कि दौरान?}

Akram Pasha: No not in the beginning. During COVID. Before that, there were all the services. Things were at place due to the work our organisation had done. When we previously used to go, we would get the facilities.^{Hindi language: ‍पहले, पहले नहीं: COVID में। COVID ये पहले सभी service था, OPD था, एक referral system सिस्टम था। क्योंकि हमने धीरे-धीरे एक जगह बनायी थी, जहाँ हमारा organisation था, हम लोग जो भी जाते हैं उनको पहले ही मिलता था।}

Apart from this, have you faced any problems in the last three to four months?^{Hindi language: ‍अपनी इसके अलावा पिछले तीन-चार महीने में कोई भी दिक़्क़त झेली जिसके बारे में आप बताना चाहेंगे?}

Akram Pasha: So what do I even tell you, we've had so many problems. Like for example, some sex workers are from other places. They have left their families there and have come here. No they cannot go back and see their kids and their family. Some are from Agra, some from Kerala, and these people can't go back to their families. This is a big problem. They cry, saying, "What is this, What can we do? I can't even go back to see my family." And the other problem is nobody has their own homes. The rent of the last three months has aggregated to be more than the deposit sex workers paid to the landlord. Most of the landlords have said to vacate the place, or to pay the rent. Nobody is ready to lend us some money. So how do we take some loan to pay the rent? So many people have vacated their places and moved with their friends. Some people tried to pay off the rent by selling the things they owned. And some people are now homeless. And the money we had borrowed that we took, the loanee charged double-double interest and now, and now stands on our chest, "Are you going to return the money or not?". He will fight in front of our homes. So we are facing so many problems related to our home. Now we fear, when the loanee will come and argue, and humiliate us in front of the neighbours. When he would argue, he would intentionally say, "you aren't that good: you do this [sex work], you do that". And when the neighbours too, get to know, [we are sex workers], then we would have to vacate the place. That is another concern.^{Hindi language: ‍Sir, मैं क्या बताऊँ आपको, बहुत सारी दिक्कतें जैसे कि कुछ सारे sex worker अपने गाँव से दूर रहते हैं। जैसे की अलग अलग दूर से भी आ के यहाँ बसे हैं। वहाँ पे अपने बच्चों को छोड़ के आया है। तो उनको देख नहीं है उनके पास जाने के लिए उनको नहीं हो रहा है। कुछ लोग आगरा से या कही केरल से आ के बसे हैं, तो उनको वापस जाके, अपनी फ़ैमिली और बच्चों को मिलने के लिए नहीं हो रहा है। तो ये भी बहुत बढ़ी दिक़्क़त है। वो लोग इतना रोते हैं, "ये कैसा है, हम लोग क्या करें, हम लोग से उनको वापस जाकर देख सके, ऐसा भी नहीं हो रहा है"। तो वो भी एक दिक़्क़त है। और दूसरी दिक़्क़त है: ज़्यादातर किसी के पास भी मकान नहीं है। मकान के लिए जो डिपॉज़िट भरा था, तीन महीने में उससे ज़्यादा मकान मालिक का किराया हो गया। बहुत सारे मकान मालिक ने उनको घर ख़ाली करने बोला है, या तो किराया देने के लिए बोला है। और कोई भी कर्ज़दार कर्ज़ देने के लिए तैयार नहीं हैं। तो कर्ज़ ले के मकान मालिक को कहाँ से देंगे? तो इसके लिए कई लोग अपना घर ख़ाली करने के अपने दोस्त के यहाँ रह रहे है। कुछ लोग अपना घर का सामान बेच के। कुछ लोग रस्ते पे आ गए हैं। और सूत के लिए हम कर्ज़ लिए थे, वो double-double interest डाल दिया, और अभी इतना छाती पे बैठा है, "आप पैसा दोगे या नहीं?" करके घर के पास झगड़ा करेंगे। तो घर के मारे ये सारी समस्या हो गई है। डर पैदा हो गया, कब कर्ज़दार आएगा, कब झगड़ा करेगा, कब आजू-बाज़ू हमारी इज़्ज़त चली जाएगी। जब झगड़ा कर रहा है, जानबूझ के बताएगा "तुम कौनसा अच्छे हो: तुम ये करते हो, वो करते हो"। पड़ोसियों को भी और पता चल जाएगा, तो फिर वहाँ से भी हमें घर ख़ाली कराया जाएगा, वो भी डर है।}

In your last three-four months, your income was reduced or stopped: how did you deal with this reality?^{Hindi language: ‍आपके जो पिछले तीन-चार महीने में ही आमदनी कम या बंद ही हो गयी: इस सच्चाई के साथ कैसे समझौता किया?}

Akram Pasha: I had to come to terms with. Because there was no other way.^{Hindi language: ‍समझौता तो करना पड़ा, क्योंकि और कोई चारा नहीं था ना।}

Has a situation like this—like what happened during COVID—has that ever [happened to you?]^{Hindi language: ‍क्या ऐसा आपके साथ—जैसा COVID के साथ जो हाल हुआ है—पहले कभी भी इस तरह का [हाल हुआ है?]}

Akram Pasha: No, never in my life this has happened before. Yes maybe during my childhood, when there was a feud between Hindu-Muslims, so for a few days this is how the situation was due to the curfew. But that was not even comparable: It was not this long, It wasn't this big. [The country] wasn't closed like this. It is a very different time. We will remember it our entire lives. Even our kids are going to remember this their whole lives.^{Hindi language: ‍नहीं, life मैं कभी ऐसा नहीं हुआ। शायद हमारे बचपन में, जब हिन्दू-मुस्लिम का जो घोटाला हुआ था, कुछ दिन curfew की वजह से, ये हालत थी। कुछ दिन के लिए। लेकिन इतना long और इतना bada नहीं था। ऐसा बंद नहीं था। ये समय जो था ना, बहुत ही अलग था, ज़िंदगी भर याद रखेगा। हमारे बच्चे ज़िंदगी भर याद रखने वाले हैं, ये COVID को।}

What do you do when flu is spreading in Mysore? does your work halt for that time? Or do you take a different kind of caution?^{Hindi language: ‍जब मैसूर में फ्लू चलता है ना, उस टाइम आप क्या करते हैं? आपका काम उस टाइम बंद हो जाता है? की आप कोई अलग तरह की सावधानी [लेते हैं]?}

Akram Pasha: No we do it differently, Taking precautions. When there was H1N1 outbreak, there was the bird flu, and then malaria, What are used to do is use different methods. When they needed some advice, we would put together the information on a paper, and send it to them. During the time of H1N1, we didn't go, I would send them in ambulance, and get the information how their treatment was going on or what medicine they needed. We did the same thing during COVID. Pick up the precautions and did not meet in groups. We didn't go to other peoples home and spend time there without any purpose. We will just speak on phone. When we used to deliver the medicines we would wear gloves, masks, full t-shirts and also cover our heads for that.^{Hindi language: ‍नहीं, अलग तरीक़े से, अपना precaution लेके। जैसे कि पिछले H1N1, और जो bird flu हुआ, उसके बाद मलेरिया: उसको हम क्या करते थे, हम उसमें अलग तरीक़े से करते हैं। ज़्यादा पास जाके नहीं, दूर: जैसे की उनको अगर कोई सलाह चाहिए, उसके लिए कुछ paper करते हैं, information डालते हैं, उन तक पहुँच जाते हैं। जैसे कि H1N1, हम लोग ख़ुद ही नहीं जाते हैं, ambulance को भेज कर उनका जानकारी लेते हैं। उनका कैसा है, उनका treatment कैसा चल रहा है, कौनसा medicine चाहिए। COVID मैं भी हमने ऐसा ही किया। precaution लिया और ग्रुप नहीं किया, कभी किसी के घर पे जा के time waste नहीं किए। बस ऐसे ही phone पे "hi hello" बात किए। जब medicine देने जाते थे, [...], तो gloves, mask full t-shirt, सिर पे टोपी, यह सब बाँध के ही जाते थे।}

Would you say: When H1N1 [swine flu] was spreading—which was happening in 2009—was it much better in than now during Corona?^{Hindi language: ‍H1N1 का जो समय चल रहा था, २००९ में चल रहा था, वो corona[virus] के मालमे में काफी बेहतर था, आप ये बोलेंगे?}

Akram Pasha: That was much better. At least it did not spread in Mysore. But I heard the problems that were happening in Africa. But it was not that frightening. We were not nearly as afraid as we are, right now during corona[virus outbreak]. But [coronavirus] is worse than the problem of untouchability.^{Hindi language: ‍बहुत बेहतर था। At least, मैसूर में नहीं फैला, लेकिन सुना था जो अफ़्रीका में क्या problem हुआ, लेकिन फिर भी उतना डर नहीं था। corona[virus] जितना डर उस समय नहीं था। लेकिन ये बीमारी छूत छात से भी ज़्यादा है।}

What do you think will happen to your work after corona[virus] pandemic is over?^{Hindi language: ‍आपको क्या लगता है, कि corona[virus] के जाने के बाद, आपके काम में क्या बर्ताव आएगा?}

Akram Pasha: I don't even know if work will be possible or not, Or if it will be just like how it was before. I don't even know, The awareness that we spread among the community, If they still remember it or not. I don't know if the community is going to accept us or not. These are the questions. In their minds, they feel, "What is going to happen, let it happen. We will see." We know everyone wants to make money, But we don't know if our work is going to function correctly or not. I think it is going to be difficult to gather the entire community now.^{Hindi language: ‍पता नहीं काम होगा भी या नहीं, पहले जैसा, मालूम नहीं। और दूसरा जो है, corona[virus] की वजह से उनके मन में जो awareness लाए थे, वो awareness है भी नहीं। community के लोग हमको फिर से स्वीकार करेंगे भी या नहीं, ये सब सवाल है। उनके मन में, "जो होगा सो होज़, देखा जाएगा": ये हो गया है। अभी हर किसी को पैसा कमाना है, हमारा काम ठीक से चलेगा ये नहीं बोल सकते हैं। क्योंकि आगे जाके हम लोग पूरे लोगों को इकट्ठा करना बहुत मुश्किल होगा।}

Until when do you plan to continue working as a sex worker?^{Hindi language: ‍आप sex worker का काम और कितने time करना चाहेंगे?}

Akram Pasha: I'll do it till the time I can. Because apart from this, I do not have any alternate job. We do not have any other way to earn our livelihood if we leave this. We do not know how to do business, nor do I have my need to start my own [business].^{Hindi language: ‍जब तक चलेगा तब तक, क्योंकि इसके अलावा हमारे पास और कोई भी alternate ना तो काम है। अभी ये छोड़ें तो हमारे पास दूसरा कोई रास्ता भी नहीं है। हम लोग को कोई व्यापार नहीं आता है, या कोई पैसा नहीं है, ताकि business करने के लिए।}

During your work—as a sex worker—what are the things that you have learned in your life?^{Hindi language: ‍आपने आपके काम के दौरान, as a sex worker, आपने क्या important चीज़े ज़िंदगी में सीखी है?}

Akram Pasha: This is the wonderful question that you have asked, I really liked it. So what is the most important for me, it is: Not to cause any discomfort, or suffering to others. I never did that. Whenever anybody would come, I will always satisfy them. And the other thing is, I would always hope: Nobody else contracts [HIV] because of me. And what I did: Unlike them other people who are not honest, I was always never corrupt. I never ever stole or snatched away someone's money. Apart from that I also give importance to my own health. So until the time I am healthy, I will have a good life. So I give importance to my own health.^{Hindi language: ‍एक तो बहुत बढ़िया आपका सवाल ये जो है, बहुत अच्छा लगा: क्योंकि मैंने ज़्यादातर important क्या है: किसी को भी दुख देना, या दूसरों को तक़लीफ़ देना, ये मैंने नहीं किया है। जब भी लोग आते थे, उनको ख़ुश करके भेजता था। और दूसरा जो है, मैं कभी भी यह सोचता था, मेरी वजह से किसी को infection ना हो, मेरे से कोई तक़लीफ़ न हो। और मैंने क्या किया: जैसे दूसरों का—जैसे कि कुछ लोग इसमें ईमानदारी नहीं होती है—कभी भी मैंने ईमानदारी से ही किया। कभी किसी के साथ उनका पैसा चुरा लेना, छीन लेना: ये मैंने नहीं किया। उसके अलावा और मैंने अपने स्वास्थ्य को importance दिया, ताकि जब तब मैं अच्छा रहूँगा, तब तक मैं अपने life मैं अपने आपको और अपना health को अच्छा रखूँगा, तो जी पयूँगा। तो इसके लिए मैंने अपने health को importance दिया।}

As you had said the only thing you got from the government was that kit, nothing other than that: What are the things the government should have done differently so your situation would not have been so bad?^{Hindi language: ‍जैसे आपने बताया कि इस बार government से इतना कुछ नहीं मिला, वो kit के अलावा और कुछ नहीं मिला: government को क्या-क्या चीज़ें अलग-अलग तरीक़े से करनी चाहिए थी, कि आप लोगों की हालत इतनी ख़राब न हो?}

Akram Pasha: If this is how the reality is, So before declaring the lockdown they should have generated some sort of scheme. We are not alone, I'm not just speaking about myself, and not just about the community, but those who are poor, who are dalit, those who are beggars: They should have done something for these people as well. Now they are announcing plans for crores of rupees—What is that for us in that? There is nothing allocated for people like us in that. Before taking these steps they should have thought about us. Now they are providing the suicide ration. They're are distributing 10kg rice. What should we do of that rice? Dissolve it in water and drink it? Can we even cook that rice? That rice is of such a terrible quality. What do I even say about that? Should have thought of some other options so that others could survive too. That others could do something too. There are so many migrants, So they should have made sure the migrants could reach travel back to their places before implementing a lockdown. They didn't think all of these things, they thought lockdown was the only remedy. This was not right. They should have thought a little bit. Taken someone's opinion. Not necessarily just from India. Maybe they could have asked someone from outside: There are many. But they didn't think about it then. And they are not thinking now. They did not think about us.^{Hindi language: ‍पहले इस चीज़ को, अगर ऐसा हो रहा है, तो lockdown करने से पहले कुछ scheme जारी करना था। हम लोग अकेले नहीं हैं, मैं अपनी ही बात नहीं कर रहा हूँ, जो अपने community के हैं, उनके साथ जो जो ग़रीब है, दलित है, और कुछ भिखारी हैं: सभी लोग हैं इसमें, तो कुछ न कुछ तो इसके लिए। अभी वो इतने करोड़ रुपये का यह जारी किया है, उसमें हमारे लिए क्या है? एक रुपये का भी हमारे लिए उसमें पैसा नहीं है। तो ऐसा करने के पहले इनको हमारे बारे में कुछ न कुछ हमारे बारे में सोचते। अभी बोल रहे हैं की राशन दे रहे हैं society में, हर एक को १० kg चावल। चावल को लाके क्या करना है? पानी में घोल के क्या, पी जाना है? और वो चावल को भी क्या पका सकते हैं? ''इतने गंदे'' चावल रहते हैं society के। इसके अलावा मैं क्या बताऊँ? सरकार को कुछ ऐसा option सोचना था, ताकि सभी भी जी सके, सभी भी कुछ कर सके। जो कुछ लोग migrant है, तो वो migrant वापस अपने घर तक पहुँच जाए, वो करके ही करना था। उन्होंने कुछ भी सोचा नहीं, बस एक lockdown ही उसका दावा है, सोच के उन्होंने lockdown कर दिया। तो ठीक नहीं है। पहले थोड़ा-बहुत सोचना था, या किसी से राय लेना था। सिर्फ़ अकेले नहीं हैं, जो हमारे भारत देश में, बहुत सारे-एक है। लेकिन अभी भी नहीं सोचा। तभी भी नहीं सोचा, अभी भी नहीं सोचा। हमारे बारे में कुछ नहीं सोचा।}

These were all the questions I had for you, Akram. Thank you for taking this time to talk to me.^{Hindi language: ‍जी अकरम जी, मेरे पास आपके लिए इतने ही सवाल थे। आपने मुझसे इतना बात किया, समय निकाला, इसके लिए धन्यवाद।}

Interview with a female sex worker

The names have been altered in the following interview, and has been translated by Sana.

Jaya: Hi Agastya. Nice to meet you.

Same here Jaya. Are you doing okay?

Jaya: Ya ya.

Can you please tell me about yourself?

Jaya: Just I will give my introduction [...] I am a sex worker and I am living with HIV-positive for 15 years, and I am practicing sex work for past 15 years also.

So, I was in a middle class family, our town was [North Karnataka], so when I was studying in college only, I fell in love with a boy, and because of his caste my family did not accept him and so I left home. I left home and I came, I came to his sisters house. He got me and kept me in his sisters house. So, when I was in his sisters house, things happened and I got pregnant. When I came to know that I am pregnant, I started forcing him to get married.

And after that when he started avoiding me, his family planned to marry him off, and they did not tell me about their plan. He told me to stay in his sisters house only, and said to me that he is not well and will be back in about two days or a week. He took his sister along with him as well. So they both left. I did have my doubts because I though both of them are going and it might be something important. But I did not know a lot about the world back then, I was from a very strict family, and I was allowed to have deep friendships with anyone, and I really did not know much about the world, I did not know that these type of people existed. So anyway I started trusting them.

It was a week...then it was 15 days and they had not come back. As they were not back, I asked my lover's sister's husband about them and he suggested that I go where they had gone and check myself. I took their address and went there, and upon enquiring from the neighbours there, I came to know that he is getting to married to so-and-so girl in a temple. Then I told all the people in the neighbourhood there about my story, I told them that he got me and now he has cheated me. But I was alone, who will listen to me? I had no support right so they all just ignored me and told me to come back and talk to the family when they came back.

When I came back to his sister's house, his sister's husband had locked the door and went away.

So yeah, when I came back the house was locked, his lovers brother-in-law was missing, I did not know where he was and was not able to find him. So I had no place at all. I went to the city bus stand and sat there, the suburban bus stand. I just sat there from the morning till the evening, I was crying, I had nothing, nothing to eat, nothing to do… just nothing. People kept looking at me in a really peculiar way, but somehow I spend the night there. Morning I went to his sisters house again, the family was back. Maybe the neighbours told them I came looking or something, so they had gone to the police and had made a complaint. As soon as I came to the house, the police… a lady constable took me to the police station. They enquired about what happened to me, and then asked for proof for whatever I told them, they asked me to prove it was him I had ran away from my house with, they asked me to prove that the baby was his only. They asked me all of this. They told me to get someone who was on my side on this, I told them that I had no one. They took the address of my home, the superior at that police station made arrangements for me to go with the lady police constable to my town, [in North Karnataka]. We went there. When we reached my home, what happened was… they did not accept me, they outrightly told the lady police constable that I was not their daughter. They told her that their daughter was dead, they told her they did not want me. So again my family just rejected me.

We got back to the police station. Police told me that I had absolutely no one, no family, no one to support me, just no one. I think because of the influence the family of my boyfriend had, and maybe they bribed the police, the police told me that they would file a case on me if I did not leave my boyfriend's family alone or if I create any trouble. I also thought that I could do absolutely nothing by myself and just went back to the bus stand and sat there.

I came back to the bus stand and stayed there the entire day. People at the bus stand started having doubts about why I was at the bus stand all day, both today and the other day. There was a lady there, Rajamma, she worked in the bathrooms of the bus stand. She came to me, sat with me, spoke to me and asked me what had happened and how it happened. Actually she was a broker and I did not know that. I told her all my problems, I told her I was from [North Karnataka], I told her I have studied till class so-and-so, that I was brought here, and then got cheated on. She asked me what I was studying now, I told her I was doing my Pre University Course, PUC. She asked me if she gave me a job would I do it? She asked me how long I will just sit here and cry? She told me that the people here are not good, and that they all looked at me as though I was something really useless and was attracting trouble. She told me that the police are not good either. She asked me what I would do if they were to lock me up in a jail. She told me that I have to be careful also because I was pregnant. She consoled me. And I trusted her also sir! I trusted her, thought about my situation, I had nothing to eat, there was a baby growing in my stomach and so I said yes to the work.

She asked to be in the bus stand with her till her husband came in the evening when her would be over. She told me if anyone came and asked about me, to just tell that I was with Rajamma and that she would come and talk to them. After giving me that trust and confidence in her she got me that days lunch. I had lunch. Her husband came that evening, they took me to their home, it wad a small house, only the husband and wife lived there. They both spoke to me, told me that they will take me to a big city. They told me that I can just keep doing my job there, and that way I would earn a lot of money as well, could have a place and not just keep sitting all day here and there. I agreed. The day after the next day, as I did not have any clothes, she gave me about four or five of her sarees, helped me pack and took me to the railway station. They took the tickets, settled down, I just remember having a bun and a coffee, that's all. That, is, all I remember. I woke up and was conscious directly at the Mumbai railway station. That is when I realised I was in the Mumbai railway station. In fact, I did not know it was Mumbai, I had only heard of a city named Mumbai, but had never seen it. I was just thinking at that time if I could get a job in such a big city, but was not scared because I knew they were with me. With the confidence I had in them I just went where they took me.

I did not know if I would get a job in that city, but I felt safe that I was with them and just went where they took me. When I went there, it was a huge house, like a really huge house. There were many young girls there, they were all wearing a lot of makeup, and were standing in the corridors and the balconies of the house. I was shocked when I saw this. I did not understand what that place was, but I had seen something similar to this on TV. Now I was scared. Rajamma and her husband told me not to worry, they told me this is my life now and I have to live like this. They advised me to just keep doing my work and everything else will work itself out. But they did not tell me what exactly was the work that they wanted me to keep doing. They told me all the girls here are just like all the other girls and told me that I don't have to worry. They told me that there was a lady in that house who was very close to them, and promised me that she would give me a good job. They took me the house, settled me down there and left.

The first day went by, the second day went by, and then from the third day on they started dressing me up. I did not like it. I told them I did not it and I told them I will not do what they were asking me to do. They told me that I can not doing it now. They told me that Rajamma and her husband had sold me off for money. They told me that they paid for me, that they paid ₹60 thousand and have to recover the cost now. They told me that I had no choice and I had to do it. That is where my story started. I just kept crying and crying. I stopped eating food. There in that house, there was a girl, she was a Kannadiga, she was from northern Karnataka, she became my friend. She told me that she has the same story too, and that once you come here, they just don't let you go. She asked me for how many days will I just keep crying like this. She told me as I am pregnant also, I at least should do this to have a future for my child. She told me that she will help me.

She told me to just agree to do what they were asking me to do. The tradition there was whenever a new girl came to the house, a Seth [merchant] would come, he is the first client for everyone in the house. Everyone new had to do him first. She told me that Seth was a very nice person, and that if I tell him my story he might help me. I agreed to do the work after this. Once I agreed, he was called. I told him my story. He asked me not to worry. He told me that he will not touch me. He said that he did not want the sin of doing a pregnant woman. He told me to be ready in the morning. He told me not to speak to anyone about this in the house. He said that he will talk to the lady in the house and sort things out. He told me that I will be picked up in the morning. I don't know what he told he told the superior or the lady at the house. I think he told her that he will come in the morning to pick me up. He came to the house the next morning. I was ready when he arrived. He picked me up from the house and took me directly to the railway station. He got me a ticked back to Bangalore. He told to go back to my town, not to trust anyone and to never come back to Mumbai. He gave me some cash, in fact, he also packed food for me for the journey.

Then I came back to Bangalore. As I did not know much about Bangalore. I came back to Mysore. When I came back to the bus stop in Mysore, Rajamma was there. As soon as she saw me she started running away. I went straight to the police station nearly after I saw her and complained there about her. I told them that they took me to Mumbai and sold me. The police caught both of them after that and they were jailed. I never saw Rajamma after that. There I was introduced to Ratnamamma aunty, she was also working in the bus stop. She asked me about my story. I told her everything. She told me that people here are not good and all. I was scared that she would do the same thing what Rajamma did. So I did not pay a lot of attention to her. Neither was I listening to anything she said and did nothing she was asking me to do. A few days later Ratnamma aunty fell in love with a boy working in one of the buses there, Seemanna. They both soon started living together. Seemanna also told me that the people here are not nice and that they might harm me. He told that I am not strong either. He told me that his partner also does the same job. He told me that I could stay with them [Ratnamma and Seemanna] until the delivery. They told me that I did not have to do any work, and that they would never force me to work. But I did not go to their house for two days after they had offered me a place at their house, I was scared the same thing would happen to me again. But after that I went to their home. They took care of me really well sir. They gave me food and treated me well. And never once told me to go work.

Time just passed by like that and I delivered my baby. Baby came and then came a boy in my life, Raju. He was one of the staff in the caterers team. He used to cook at big events like marriages. He asked Ratnamma aunty if he could marry me. He told her that he too had no one, no father, no mother. He also told that he will accept and support the child I had. I agreed. Ratnamma and Seemanna arranged for a room for the three of us near Teresian College. That is when I started my lifethree He was good to me.

Some time after all this he lost his job. Then he started forcing me to go work. He kept telling me that knows I was a sex worker. He kept telling me to stop lying to him about it and just go to work even though I just did not want to do it. He told me that he had given me a chance at normal family life and all that. He forced me to go to work at least for the sake of the child. He started drinking. He would come back home drunk and hit me. So that I would go work. He kept forcing me and at the end I started working as a sex worker.

Whenever I could not earn enough he would get drunk and hit me. I started drinking then actually, I would drink with him too. It had become a routine, when there was money, we would drink, get food and have a good time. When there was no money, he would still drink and hit me. I was just living like this and I met Raghu then. I met him because he was there in the area in which I operate. Before the project came, we were all in our own places. We were good friends, we would share our clients. We told each other about the sex with clients. We used to discuss our problems. We used to do all this and we shared a very special bond, like the bond of siblings, he was like a brother to me. When the members of the project asked Raghu about the female sex workers, he introduced me to them. That is how I became a part of Ashodaya.

I was living like this and one day Raju just started falling ill. We were referred to JSS from the project itself. Dr Sundar from the project referred us to the JSS hospital. They told us that Raju will be tested to see if he is HIV-positive. The results came, and he was HIV-positive. They sent me to counselling and then I was told that me and my child should also be tested for HIV. Both of us got tested, I was HIV-positive and my daughter was HIV-negative.

How old [were you] when all of this happened?

Jaya: I was 16 when I left home. I was 18-19 [when all of ''these'' things happened].

How has your life changed since you were diagnosed with HIV?

Jaya: A lot has changed sir. I thought that the life I had with Raju was all I had. Then I was connected to Ashodaya. I sent my daughter to a hostel, so that she has a good education. I don't want her to have the life I had. I joined a de-addiction centre because I wanted to stop drinking. I do not want the life I had for any other girl, so I started doing things to help beside my sex work. I want to be there for them to help them make the right decisions at the right time. I want to show them the right path. Then I started mingling with everyone so that I could help, I treat them like my own children. In the meetings, we all discuss our problems, everything else that happened with us. After Ratnamma died I became very involved with the community after that.

How does a normal day as a sex worker look like for you?

Jaya: It is very similar any other household, I am just like the other housewives. I cook breakfast, then I clean the house, then make lunch. Actually not many clients come in the morning. They usually come in the evenings. When I did not have a house of my own I spent most of my day outside, in the parks, in the movie theatres, for time pass, and in the evening I did the sex work. But once I had my own house, I did it most of the times in the evenings only. I am just like the other ladies my age. But I never like telling anyone that I was a sex worker. And I could not tell any one about my problems, because people cringe when they know that I am a sex worker, let alone sharing things with the general population or just a kind neighbour about it. People, especially until a dew years back hated any sex worker in general because they thought that HIV and AIDS exists because of us only, like we were the virus, and not someone infected by the virus. They did not know the main source, most of them. The stigma became lesser and lesser as people were more educated about this. But even today, sex works means some sort of dirty, forbidden taboo. It is considered a bad job, people think it is something horrendous to do.

What are the things that you like about your job? And what are the things that you do not like about your job?

Jaya: The thing I like the most about this job was that led to understand the pain there is in the society, not just for me, but for everyone. I used to think that I was the only one facing such horrible things in life, but when I interacted with people from the project, I understood that there were many more people facing more difficult problems than me, and have had a tougher journey. Most of them just started doing the sex work because they did not want to die of starvation, or without being able to afford the medicine. If someone is educated they have many options from which they can choose to work, and they also have the support of their family. But we have no support, no skills and it is very difficult. But you do learn a lot in this profession, when we talk to each other, we tell how we got out of so-and-so situation and that is a lesson for everyone else. It is so fascinating sometimes, one person says they have a problem, and before she even finishes telling her problem completely, another person gives a solution, because we share common experience. What I do not like about this is how the society looks at us, it is like we are a big pimple on the face of the society. They don't see sex work as a job, they look at it in a way that is hard to describe, like it is some sin. What they do not understand is that we are not hurting anyone, we aren't robbing anyone, not creating any trouble anywhere that disturbs others or things like that. We offer our body as a service and are making money offering that service. I really want to make them see the point here, I want them see the point, I want to tell them this. People still are not educated and okay about this, and that is something I dislike about this job.

Could you tell me more about the work that you do with Ashodaya?

Jaya: Ashodaya works for the people of our community. They work for male, female and transgender sex workers. It could be financial help, it could be social help, or even political help. They take care of our health along with our position in our society. We help people of our community come to the main stream. Once people hear the name of Ashodaya, they come to know that it is about the sex workers. There are many things that the people in our community did not have, be it Aadhar card, ration card or a bank account. We got them all these documents, so that they have a proper identity in the society. We did so that they have a equal access to the rights in this society like anyone else. It is hard to do this job and give a proper education to kids, so we connected with many principals and got them admissions in schools so that they could have a good future ahead. We wanted to a mainstream part in the society just like all the other citizens, we took part in many protests, like when there was bomb blast in Bombay, the protests against corruption, the protest for Kavery water etc. So we mingled with all the other people of the society, because we are also a part of the society legitimately and wanted to be highlight that. We wanted to be seen like any other citizen of the society. If there is a death in our community and if the family does not claim the body, we give them a proper farewell with all the last rights. We give help that is required by the members of our community.

Not just that, we have made a co-operative now, because initially we all think that our boyfriends are our only [financial] security and there is a lot of abuse because of this. Now it is Ashodaya is some kind of a [financial] security for them. Before this the people in our community gave all their money to the boyfriends if they had any, but now it is not like that we give them the confidence that they can have a future of their own. So we build this, and many are saving in this only.

But in this COVID situation our lives have just become very difficult now, because first of all we have the burden of one disease, AIDS, and if someone catches Corona, it has not happened yet, and I hope it does not happen, but if it does it is a very difficult thing to handle. Many of us don't have an earning now, we aren't paying the rent, and many have lost their homes because of this. Except a few, most of the members in our community are struggling a lot. We can give so much help at this time now, it is just not possible to give them groceries or medicines that will last for a full month.

Do you make enough money to live a comfortable life?

Jaya: No sir. First at least we could earn and save, now it is not even possible to earn. Same like how the daily wage workers are facing problems now, we are also having troubles. We don't have a house of our own, no money to pay the rent, it is difficult. We have to look after the education of our kids, we have to look after our own needs, we have to think about the future also sir. It is just not possible with the money we earn.

Generally how often do you seek medical check-up?

Jaya: We go for check ups every month. We take medicines and survive. A few of them who live far away from the hospitals do it once in three months.

[The Ashodaya volunteer, the translator, mentioned: There was a full time clinic before the lockdown at our Ashodaya office. Most of the sex workers are health-conscious. That is the biggest challenge for us now, in the lockdown the HIV patients are not able to access their drugs that they need. We have started giving prescription and counselling online.]

A few of us are TB patients also, for them we took the permission of police and are delivering drugs to their home. We have asked the government, written many letters for the help for our community during the time of COVID, but we aren't getting much help from there.

How have the last three months for you been like?

Jaya: As I said, they have been very difficult for us, not just for me, they have been very painful for most of the people in my community. As I am one of the leaders in Ashodaya, I call up many people daily to tell them about COVID, to educate them, But what I hear from them is very saddening, they are in a lot of pain and trouble. They are depressed, they see no way of earring now. A few of them have their old parents with them, they do not know how to take care of them anymore, they are worried about their children's education. They tell me that they are not even able to get one proper meal a day, because there are absolutely no clients. We have requests like these everyday for help. We are trying as much as we can to give them groceries or connect them to a doctor. But the most important thing that they need now is food. We are trying to deliver food daily, but we can't do that for a long time, because the cases do not seem to be decreasing, we don't have the resources to keep going like this. We have been thinking a lot about the girls in our community, many have lost their homes, we are trying to find them all a place to live. But this has been one of the very harsh times our community is facing.

There is a girl from our community near my house, she was crying and telling me that Corona has made their life very difficult, we got little money as a sex worker, but at least we did, and we somehow managed our kids and our needs, but now it is very difficult. She told me that wants to die of COVID because that would end her sufferings. I have to talk to her after this interview now. She too is HIV-positive, and when things like this happen, they get very emotional, there is nobody to support them, and they fall into deep depression. I am also thinking about how we could get all these people who are depressed out of depression.

You said that you wrote to the politicians and the government of India, and the ministry of health, did you hear back from them? Did they say anything?

Absolutely nothing sir. Till now we have got absolutely nothing sir. That is the biggest problem here actually, we spoke to many senior officers, but they all say that it is lockdown and it is not possible to help now. They ask us to come back when everything is normal again. Nobody gave us anything that we could use to help. But we will try again.

Tell me about the safety precautions that you have taken during the pandemic.

Jaya: We don't go out without a mask anywhere now. We are using sanitisers. We are maintaining social-distancing. We have made a batch system. If one goes out one day, then to go out again she will have to wait her turn. We are trying to make the conversations to the phone as much as possible. And if we go out, we come back, wash our hands, legs, face, we then bathe, and wash our clothes. We are also asking others to do the same.

Did you have access to an N-95 mask?

Jaya: No sir, it was very difficult to get it, but we are using the ones we made at home. Ramdas [local MLA] and ministry of health gave a few masks and some groceries, but we are not supposed to use them after a certain amount of time [3-4 hours], it is not recommended.

Did your family support you financially during these few months?

Jaya: No sir, no. I have left my family long back, no support from them. This is my story, the others, they have a different story. As I have no family, I am the only one who has to think of my daughter. But for a few, it is not just their daughter, but the full family that they have to take care of. Most of the sex workers are alone, they don't have a family, or, they are the one member in the family who earns.

What about your partner? Did they help?

Jaya: Most of the partners of the sex workers I know are dependent on the sex workers themselves, so no, they don't help. And even if the partners did help, how much can they help? Not much. They aren't in a good job or anything. Not government jobs, just coolies or things like that. And they also their own families to take care of. Also, they too are very scared to go out and earn in such a situation.

Did you look for any alternate source of income in the last three months?

Jaya: Most of the people in our community are not well educated. A few who have studied a little try to take tuition to the kids in their neighbourhood. But now the schools are also closed. And to be careful during this time, the kids don't go to tuition. But as most of us are not well educated it is difficult for us to get or do any other job. We are teaching the members of our community to make masks and sanitisers at home so they can for ₹10 or ₹20. A few of them are going as daily wage agriculture labours. I mean they have to do something, their needs, rent, kids, family, and parents in a few cases, and if things go wrong they need to see the doctor, and if medicines are prescribed, they need to buy those, can't prioritise in this. It is just not possible to survive without earning. No matter what, at least ₹2000 is required if you want to have a roof over your head.

When did you first hear about coronavirus?

Jaya: March 21st sir. Initially I thought it was just another virus that caused fever and nothing as serious as HIV. But eventually I realised the gravity of the situation. At least for HIV there is a treatment that is available to the public, but it is not so with COVID, that is my main problem now.

What was your initial reaction to the spread of coronavirus and the lockdowns?

Jaya: I was really shocked when I heard about the lockdown, I knew what that would mean for the people in my community. This is nothing like the troubles I have faced earlier, I am very worried about the future. I just can't stop thinking if this is how I would have to spend the rest of my life. Many others in my community are thinking the same thing.

When did the effects of COVID-19 start reflecting in your life?

Jaya: Started effecting my life more than three months ago sir.

Did you ever get a chance to work in the last three months?

Jaya: There are absolutely no clients. The clients themselves are very scared, no sex work at all from the past three months.

When do you plan on resuming your work?

I just can't predict sir, because this is a chronic disease, and there is no vaccine, I really don't know how the situations will turn out. A few people in my community are ready to wait and struggle for some more time before starting to work again. But the few who are really broke, they really need the money, so they are ready to start working again. Life is really important for them, they don't want to die of starvation, so they really can't take precautions. I am very worried about these people, and just can't stop thinking about the vulnerability of the situation. That is why I am making a lot of phone calls daily.

When you start seeing the clients again after the lockdown, what are the precautions that you are going to take?

Jaya: Firstly, I really can't practice social-distancing with them. If not the client, we will definitely wear a mask all along. It will be compulsory for the client to use a sanitiser. I will just ask him to take what is available and leave [giggles]. Just can't touch anything, you know. We are actually not allowed to travel for sex work now, so we are planning to do whatever it is online only sir. Like tempting them over phone, and having sex over phone. Like setting them up to the mood of sex over phone, but they should satisfy themselves as we help. And they can pay over Google Pay or something like that. Even for those who come to us, we are planning to ask them to sit a certain distance apart, we will help them set the mood for sex, and help them, while they satisfy themselves. But touching them is too risky. That is what all the people in the community are discussing these days. We need to avoid physical sex, and stick to tele sex. Few sex workers in Africa and in the Asia sex workers network proposed to change the positions for better safety. Nothing is sure yet, but sex is physical most of the time, it is going to be hard to maintain social-distancing.

Apart from Ashodaya community did any other community, NGO or government provide any aid or any help?

Jaya: Absolutely nothing sir. Some send over some groceries, except that nothing. The government has a few schemes, but there are problems even with that, most of the aid would go the Schedule Caste or the Schedule Tribes in our community, and that they would have more preference. But our community has people from all the casts, not just the SC/STs. And if most of the aid goes to them, what are the others supposed to do? Groceries somehow we are managing. We have written a letter about the medicines also, but we don't know what their reply to our request will be. And with the schemes, this is the problem. And importantly, we need a shelter, as rent is not affordable anymore. Even though we are working as sex workers, our relatives, neighbours, and friends don't know that. We go the same time the other ladies in the neighbourhood go to work, and its kept a secret like that. And the neighbours are getting doubtful and skeptical about us now, they are stigmatised more now.

How is this situation different from 2009, when H1N1 Swine Flu was going around?

Jaya: We did not have much issues with it because the treatment came right away and the spread was this fast either. That did not seem very difficult to us, honestly. But here, someone could have no symptoms but can harm you.

How old are you and how long do you plan on doing this job?

Jaya: I am 40, almost approaching 41 now. I am planning to do it as long I can sir. My daughter also has completed her BA [Bachelor of Arts] and BEd [Bachelor of Education] and has a job now. Once I marry her off my responsibility is less. After that I plan on starting my own business or something.

What are the important things you have learnt during your time working as a sex worker?

Jaya: Majorly, thinking that life will stay the way it is, or the way it is planned it not true. There is too much to learn in life and with that we can make a successful life for us. If one assumes that this is all I can do and just stops putting in the effort, it is not possible to empower oneself with that mentality. We might be in a horrendous situation, but we often forget that we also the skill to deal with that situation. If we just use that skill and try, we can empower ourselves, we can do anything, we can achieve anything, this is a lesson that I have learnt. It is like the saying "Failure is the first step towards success in life". Be confident.

What are the things that the government should have done differently, according to you, so that the situation was better handled?

Jaya: They should decriminalised the sex work. Just like how the other jobs are considered a job, if sex work was treated the same way, we would have received the same equality that someone else gets, we won't be stigmatised. That way we could freely be with people and stay in a time where everyone is treated equally. We could have saved ourself a lot of harassment and trouble if things were like that. I want the government to have not just equality of religion or caste, but equality of work too.

Well those were all the questions I had for you. Would you like to add anything?

Jaya: One request I have is, just writing this article is not important, I want people to understand what the sex workers need. I want to be an example for everyone. Life is much more than just being a sex worker. People need to understand that a sex worker is also a human and will have problems any other human would have. I request the government to help us better in actually delivering the help they promise us. I don't want this article to be read and written with empathy and not sympathy. I want people to just understand our lives through this, and not pity us or feel sad. We want peoples support, not sympathy.

Well, thank you very much for your time, for discussing this and sharing almost everything that you could possibly. It was really nice speaking to you. I wish you good luck for your life and have a good day ahead.

Links

Original interview with Akram, a male sex worker
Original interview with Jaya, a female sex worker

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Categories this article belonged to

• AIDS
• Asia
• COVID-19
• Crime and law
• Health
• Human rights
• India
• Infectious disease
• Karnataka
• Mysore
• Politics and conflicts

This article was copyedited by the following Wikinewsies: Pi zero, SVTCobra, Cognitive137, JJLiu112, and Green Giant.

Dated July 6, 2020

Note: This interview was conducted back in 2019 for Wikinews and the text has been since published here under the Creative Commons Attribution 2.5 license. Please check the licenses of media files before reusing.

A number of Muslim-majority countries around the world implement Shari'a — commonly known as Islamic law — and have laws against apostasy and blasphemy. Numerous times, over the years, people have been sentenced to death penalty for renouncing Islam. In 2018, a Pakistani journalism student Mashal Khan was killed by a mob lynch after he was accused of blasphemy. At times there have been protests against the restrictions on free speech in Islam.

Other than the restriction of free speech, many Muslim majority countries have declared homosexuality as a capital crime, and observe a strict dress code for women. Iran has banned a number of female chess players for not wearing a hijāb. An Iranian woman was sentenced 20 years for removing hijāb while protesting the strict dress code.

On the behalf of Wikinews, I had gotten in touch with Tanzanian-born ex-Muslim Zara Kay to discuss the struggles an ex-Muslim woman faces, as well as her organisation: Faithless Hijabi. Faithess Hijabi is an organisation which helps other ex-Muslim women by sharing their stories and experiences. Its Facebook page had over 7000 likes, and Zara Kay, who identifies herself as an anti-theist, had previously helped a teenager from Saudi Arabia Rahaf Mohammed escape to Canada.

The following is the interview with Zara Kay that took place in 2019.

Interview with Zara Kay

So, how are you doing?

Zara Kay: I am good, thanks. Um, really busy [...] How are you?

I am doing well. Can you tell us something about yourself?

Zara Kay: Um yeah. So I was born in Tanzania. And then, I left Tanzania when I was 16. I moved to Malaysia. And then, I moved to Australia at the age of 19. I took off my headscarf right before I moved to Australia: so I was about 18, 19. And yeah, so I come from a Shi'a background. The specific community is called the Khoja Shi'a Ithna Asheri Jamaat.

File photo of Zara Kay.
Credit: Agastya/CC0 1.0

How old are you? And when did you decide to start Faithless Hijabi?

Zara Kay: So, I am 26 now. And I started Faithless Hijabi last year [in 2018]. So I was 25 when I started Faithless Hijabi.

So in terms of the goals for our organisation: it started off and it still at its core remains a story-telling platform. We want to engage our audiences by making them aware of the people living either in the Middle East who come from a Muslim background in the West; girls who have escaped; girls who have emancipated; girls would run away from home; girls have gone through emotional and physical abuse, right? Before leaving religion, after leaving religion. Sometimes those are the reasons that had caused them to question religion: the way they were treated. Being subservient to men.

So the core of the organisation and the goals are to encourage empathy by story-telling. And our core principles for Faithless Hijabi is always keeping true to our audience by sharing stories that we've received. And also, it's a global movement, so we have girls coming from everywhere. It could be from the Maldives, it could be from Canada. Some of them from Somalia, some of them from East Africa. Many of them from the Middle East, but also so many from the UK itself.

We also have converts. And it's open to, basically, all ex-Muslims. But we've also had curious Muslims as well, who are like, "I'm questioning [the faith], but I like the identity [as a Muslim], but I don't believe in God". It's a very confusing phase for so many. So sometimes they take longer to even reach that stage. I've seen girls who have taken a year and a half from when I first first spoke to them until now.

Okay, so what motivated you to start this organisation, and who supported you when the organisation was very young?

Zara Kay: So initially I started it with a Christian male friend of mine. We had different goals but in the end it ended up molding into what it is now. Initially we wanted to create a Sydney-based group for people to question things. But that wasn't safe for many people. Not many people would come out as curious Muslims. So we had to then narrow down our field to talk to people who had already come out. So I've always been leading it. I've had a few people help me with the setups of it — registering the non-profit, but I was motivated by my own experiences. I wanted to know what other girls had gone through because I had gone through the same thing. While I come from a relatively liberal family, I still felt very lost, but also found: I had found my new identity. And I was learning how to settle into it. But I also wanted to know: can women come together and help each other?

Somalian activist Ayaan Hirsi Ali has been critical about Islam.
Credit: American Atheists/CC BY 3.0

Because we still go through a lot of security risks with the girls' stories that we get, a lot of girls are not comfortable talking to other people, so they'll talk to me, or they'll talk to other volunteers: it's always a one-on-one thing. We couldn't actually create a community yet. We're working on it now to create a community. But what had motivated me was finding validation and aligning what my story was to other stories. Because I had heard of other ex-Muslim women like Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Sara Haider. And bits of their stories were the way I was thinking but I didn't know how to confront it. And I could only imagine that there's so many girls like me who are going through the same phase. And it only made sense to then reach out to women; ask them for their stories; and initially, I would read the entire story on my own and publish it. So it was a one-woman-run-organisation until March this year [2019]. So from October [2018] to March [2019], I was the only one running it.

Was it your full-time job?

Zara Kay: No it wasn't my full-time job. For a part, it was full-time, but most of it, it was done part-time when I had full-time employment.

So were you scared or were you anxious when you just started the organisation? And did you have any prior experience working in any Non-Government Organisation?

Zara Kay: No I didn't. I didn't even know it was going to be this big. I didn't know it would reach 2000 or 3000 likes. I wasn't expecting it to. I just wanted a Facebook page that would connect people, that would be an advocacy. I was really excited about it because I've wanted so many women to come together and share their stories. And also find a sense of community with sharing stories.

Also I think the one thing that we always achieve after we've received stories is that a lot of people have never shared their stories before. So they find a lot of comfort. And it's like journaling for them. It is their experience. There is nothing they're making up. But they haven't actually spoken about it to anyone. And that's what we aim to achieve in the long term: giving women that safe haven or a safe space to share their story; having their stories be an advocacy for other ex-Muslim women or ex-Muslim women in general; but also on the other end, inspiring other people to come forward and talk about it. It all has to do with normalising it.

Why did you choose this name Faithless Hijabi?

Zara Kay: Because for the longest time hijāb for many, and knowing in Iran it's forced. But there's so many women who have been doubting hijāb — not religion, just hijāb. But we came up thinking how do we portray an ex-Muslim woman who is faithless but can't come out? And hijāb felt like a good cover where a lot of people who are questioning would still wear it because they're not sure yet and hijāb was that identification of Muslim women but what happens when they're faithless: they're not Muslim women but they're still hijābi. And they can be hijābi and they can be faithless Muslims. If you take Muslims as a cultural name.

Do you put all your time behind Faithless Hijabi or do you work at other places?

Zara Kay: I have two other jobs, so on weekdays, I am a programmatic analyst in a media agency. And on weekends, I work as a bartender. Only because I'm trying to have more time outside Faithless Hijabi while growing it part-time. So Faithless Hijabi is very much part-time for me.

What is your role at the organisation?

Zara Kay: My role in Faithless Hijabi is, well besides founding it, I do the strategy part. So I am strategic lead. I'll decide on what campaigns we should put out, what conversation starters do we have, how to reach other women, what tech we should be investing in. So I do pretty much the top-level operations part of it. And the tech part of it because I come from a technical background. And then we have a few volunteers who do the Arabic page of Instagram and the English page of Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook.

How many people volunteer for the organisation?

Zara Kay: At the moment, we're about four people. We're trying to get more volunteers to come in. But we're in the process of actually establishing a better non-profit structure. So looking for more experienced people who can help us drive it forward. All the girls who work at Faithless Hijabi are actually ex-Muslim women and real faithless hijābis as well. Who wear a hijāb but can't take it off.

Do they all work full-time?

Zara Kay: They all work. Faithless Hijabi for many is on volunteer basis. We have no funding. We haven't decided to apply for funding because we're waiting on a better structure, we're waiting for more growth which is probably happening in the next two three months. So we just released our Arabic page about less than a month ago, or a month ago and that is still gaining traction slowly. But we plan to keep growing it.

What is the outline of how the organisation functions?

Zara Kay: So, with Faithless Hijabi, we now have a website where women can submit stories. A large part of our growth was based on my growth as an activist. And the more ex-Muslim women reached out to me, the more I would tell them to send me a story. The more I would start opening Faithless* Hijabi* to all of them to send stories. But now that we have a website, whenever an ex-Muslim or anybody on my inbox comes along, or somebody highlights an ex-Muslim tweet, I always just post the link. And they will share their stories. And it has pointers on what stories we're looking for, what pointers we have, and anything else they would like to add. We want to keep it to free speech. We want the girls to feel safe. So it's always anonymous. The stories come to us, and then I send it to the publishers that work with us: with Faithless Hijabi. Girls I have personally vetted, know them personally, and because they're sensitive stories, the publishers will edit out if there're any typos or if the story needs to be in a particular structure of flowing. And that's what happens in the English page. And in the Arabic page, we get translators to translate the story. One of our volunteers is based in the Middle East, behind an identity because nobody can know who she is. And she translates stories, and she takes care of the Arabic page. Only because we didn't want somebody who didn't know Arabic to just keep posing stories but [instead] know what they're writing about. So we want authenticity. We don't want to automate it completely. And we want our volunteers to be as engaged to then publish the stories to engage audiences as well.

How does a normal day at work look like for you?

Zara Kay: So with Faithless Hijabi, because I spent a couple of hours between my activism and Faithless Hijabi, I will do, depending on what work there is remaining: it could be finishing up the website. It could be: I personally — girls who come through Faithless Hijabi — I mentor them and coach them. It could be from coaching them on how to remove their hijāb even if they're Muslims they'll come to me. And even if they're ex-Muslims also come to me, apparently, despite our difference in beliefs, they find comfort in talking to somebody who's not going to push them to wear a hijāb. So some of my days can be working with girls who have mental health issues and most of them happen to be Muslims. Or working with girls on helping them achieve better conversations or being comfortable with removing the hijāb. And this could be girls from the age of 15 and above. My rule is mainly to guide them to get their answers, or to help them understand that being an ex-Muslim can come as a big burden to your families. And despite us wanting to accept it, we also need to accept that there they would not accept it: that we need to learn to create better boundaries between us and our families. And that has personally worked for me. On and off, sometimes even I fail to hold up that system of boundaries. But by-and-large, I just have to coach girls into, well, one being independent in their decisions; two, also, being faithful, when they take those decisions are they safe [unintelligible]. So there's a lot of coaching and mentoring happening. And then there is, the operations side that is happening as well. So, right now we're looking for more volunteers to help us. But at the moment I've been carrying a lot of different things that I need to do.

According to you what is the significance of a hijāb?

Zara Kay: Well, I don't think hijāb has ever been a choice for any of us really, who were born Muslims, who were told that hijāb is what good Muslim women do. So, we were coerced to wearing it. At this point in this day and age, a lot of the girls wear it as a political identity: they want to be recognised as a Muslim. A lot of them don't even know how hijāb came about based on its history. They don't know a lot of the stories that are about hijāb. They don't question why the hijāb is there for women as clothing and not the same for men. They've just learned to accept it. So, I think at this point the significance of hijāb is mostly as a political identity.

Zara Kay wearing a hijāb.
Fair Use image credit: Zara Kay
Did you first hear a hijāb willingly?

Zara Kay: I was eight and I thought I chose to wear it. But like I said, at a young age I've always seen with some women wear hijāb until I was 16 and moved overseas. So I think, I would say I was coerced into wearing hijāb. It wasn't fully a informed choice of mine, or an informed decision. But I did say I want to wear it. And my parents did not shy away from it, they accepted my decision because I would have had to wear it when I was nine. I started when I was eight.

When did you decide not to wear a hijāb?

Zara Kay: I was about 18 when I decided I would take it off. But even before then, I started slowly loosening it up or showing my hair on the front. I used to wear an abāyā as well. So I took off the abaya and I just wear a headscarf. And I think, when I actually took it off, I was 18, turning 19.

That was when you were in Australia, right?

Zara Kay: That was when I was in Malaysia, about to go to Australia.

What was your childhood like?

Zara Kay: My childhood, well: I am one of six. So I have been brought up my oldest brother and then two older sisters and younger sister. So, my sisters are already set the precedence that they wore hijāb and I had to wear hijāb. But at the same time, I grew up in a very relatively liberal family. My family was happy to send me overseas for education. They did expect me to still be a Muslim. They did expect me to come back. I think life just changed and I decided to go to Australia and they supported me. So they've never been extremist: they've been conservative. They have just been in their little bubble in Tanzania, like they have travelled a lot, but they have never really experienced life living in the West, or even just progressive values, in general. However, there were always — despite the passive-aggressiveness — they've always been relatively kind to me. There's a bit of emotional blackmail now knowing that I'm not a Muslim and a public activist. But they still talk to me, we're still amicable. Sometimes, I just have to take a little bit of space.

My childhood was relatively fine. It was never a reason why I left Islam. It was always: at the age of 13, I stopped praying and my dad would tell me to keep praying, but he'd never really enforce it: he was just ask and the guilt would drown me. But, when I moved overseas, I didn't really care much about prayers, about religion. Even if I wore a hijāb, it was never the forefront, I barely went to mosque. So, my family was never a reason why I rejected the religion. The more I studied about it, the more people I met who aren't religious: they helped me question the religion in ways such as: they were such kind people who were gay and I could never get myself to hate gay people. I could never reject them for their sexuality. I never really thought that they should be with the woman. And also, the more I studied religion, when I was trying to understand more about creating peace with gay people, or creating peace with people who don't accept your religion; more I was surprised that it didn't exist.

What were the incidents that compelled you to step into helping other women?

Zara Kay: I think, going through mental health anxiety myself, and I remember calling my mom once. And after I was diagnosed, like, you know, five-six months after I was diagnosed with anxiety, I used to get panic attacks every night. And I remember calling my mom and I asked. And I told my mom I have anxiety, and she's like "you need to pray more". And I started crying and I said, "You're not listening to me. I have done everything." And I wasn't even an ex-Muslim. I just didn't even know. I tried reading the Qur'an on my phone, it didn't help. It just made me me feel worse because I knew what the book like I knew a lot about the book: [it] wasn't very peaceful. And having that experience, I started reading a lot of books outside the Qur'an. Be it atheism, psychological well-being, self-help. And once I got to a stage where I could take care of myself, I wanted to help other girls. I wanted to help other girls who couldn't. So many girls I helped are Muslims. They still choose to be Muslims, but anxiety and depression is something they suffer from. So, because I've been through all of that, I wanted to be a helping hand making girls feel like they were never alone. And religion had nothing to do with it.

I mean, for me, a lot of my anxiety was tied into religion. But my relationship with other people didn't have much do with religion.

You describe yourself as an anti-theist, right?

Zara Kay: Yeah, I do.

Sayyidah Zaynab Mosque, one of the Shi'a shrines in Syria.
Credit: Ahmad.aea.99/CC BY-SA 3.0
Could you tell us about the time when you were skeptical of your faith?

Zara Kay: It started in phases. I was about 12 or 11 years old, and I went to Syria. And because I come from a religious background, in Syria, you go visit all the shrines. And I saw people praying to the shrines and kissing the shrines: and I'm like I know it comforts people to be to show love to a symbol, but why are they praying to it. And I could never understand, so I tried creating mental gymnastics in my head, and I'm like: "Oh no, they still believe in Allah, but they're praying to it [the shrines] because they know that this person was close to Allah."

And then, they were small things like "Who created God?" And this is at a very young age. And as I grew up, and I started questioning things about Shi'as and Sunnis. And I started learning more about Sunnis since I wanted to bridge the gap. And that, I think, from the age of 17 or 18, I only called myself a Muslim. Some people went like "Are you a Shi'a or Sunni?" and I said, "No, I am a Muslim". That was slowly me trying to come out from those labels. And making my own destiny, I would say. Or choosing my own path versus what I was born with. And then, I critically started questioning it in 2016. And I was exposed to a lot of Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins and Ayaan Hirsi Ali. And listening to their podcasts, I think a lot of it just made me anxious because I could relate to it but I did not know how to get there.

Portrait of Sam Harris.
Credit: Christopher Michel/CC BY-SA 4.0

Portrait of Richard Dawkins.
Credit: Steve Jurvetson/CC BY 2.0

Harris and Dawkins have been critical of religions including Islam.

Did that attract any violence or threat?

Zara Kay: I mean, just expressing myself as a supporter of gay people and a Muslim I got a lot of abuse online. I couldn't understand why people would hate them so much: why would people hate anyone so much. So yeah, like, even just as a curious Muslim, I got a lot of violence but even now I get death threats. And I think, if you have seen my Twitter, my Instagram, and Facebook with the lot with a lot of threats with anything I do; even if it's not meant to be provocative. Even if it's just a photo of me, everybody just wants to attack you on everything. I literally have people from Tanzania, who knew that I suffered from a health issue, and they would always hold it against me every time. So yeah, I do have people who intentionally would try bullying me.

Does the organisation provide help to ex-Muslim females who are abused by the families for questioning faith?

Zara Kay: Yes, it does. No, usually, if you talk to anybody who is religious — because apostasy is punishable by death [in Islam] — and because these are people who've been brought up with that ideology, the likelihood is that any questions they ask the answer would be "Don't question God", or "You're interpreting it wrong", or "Maybe you should ask somebody who's a scholar". And then, a lot of people, when they go to scholars and even when I had recently come out [as an apostate], I was scared of going to scholars because I was so embarrassed of not being smart enough to know this answer. But there were logical fallacies and a lot of the mental gymnastics are being played to keep you in the religion. So, no your faith would not help you to in the questioning phase.

Does the organisation help Muslim men who are skeptical of their faith?

Zara Kay: The organisation as such is built for women and their story. But because I come as part of the organisation, they're very much intertwined. Which is great, because there are: well I have my activism as being an anti-theist; my organisation serves purposes to engage women in critical thinking, and being advocacy for ex-Muslim women. There is a bit of an overlap, but personally yes, I do help ex-Muslim men or Muslim men who are thinking about it. A lot of times it ends up in abuse, where I get harassed, I get abused. I've had so many men who have tried harassing me. And then would end up insulting me only because I had tried questioning them. Or I would help them through it and sometimes it would be fake and they would just waste my time. And now, I don't: because I were initially when I came out I was so willing to help other men, but it would blow up in my face. I find women to be even if they're harsh when they begin with, they slowly warm up to the idea thinking, "Hey, you're actually not that bad. We may have different faiths, and you offend me but you're making some sense". And I would just ask them simple questions. With men, they find it easy to use sexual harassment, instead of admit to me challenging their critical thinking. But there are a few men that I have helped on-and-off. A lot of them talk to all other activists, so I think in bits and pieces. As ex-Muslim activists, we always help other people going through a similar phase.

Do women who live in those countries where Shari'a is implemented, do they reach out for help?

Zara Kay: Yeah! Absolutely! Yeah yeah, so, we have a lot of Saudi women. I actually helped a Saudi girl escape. It was a financial help to moral support. But she escaped, and she's safe in the Western country and that was pride and joy for me. And yeah, we have a lot of women from, like, parts of Indonesia, parts of Malaysia, a lot of Middle Eastern women as well who have reached out for help. And even though they know nothing can be done off it, they've they just want to talk sometime. And if you talk about it, and I think in very little ways me and my volunteers will try helping them. Sometimes they're forced marriages even in Canada. And that's not even about Shari'a law -- we'll try providing as much support as we can we. We don't have any financial help, so usually all the financial help comes in from crowd-funding.

Who supports Faithless Hijabi financially?

Zara Kay: I support it. I worked two jobs to support anything that I can. I stopped my career for since March last year [2018], I took a sabbatical. So I was traveling. I was sick for a bit. And then once I was recovering, I took some time out for Faithless Hijabi. I had a lot of savings and I supported it in terms of registering it. A lot of my time spent online. Even in the tech and everything, I've supported it fully with my savings. And that's why it means a lot to me and I've kept it really close and we haven't really gone into government funding. Because, sometimes it's hard to justify where the money can go. Especially, if we're trying to crowd-fund an air ticket, which can potentially be illegal. But I think moving forward, we want to come up with programs that would help ex-Muslim women in those situations, such as in financial situations which has mostly to do with education, but help them get up to speed so they can be financially independent. That's one of the things about leaving your religion: more often you're ostracised from your family and cut out from any finances. So, we're hoping to apply for government grants, use part of their grants, to award ex-Muslim women and help them get settled in their new career path. It could be maybe paying part of their tuition, or maybe helping them find a temporary accommodation. We're still discussing that. So nothing is in stone.

What are the short-term and the long-term goals of the organisation?

Zara Kay: So the short-term goals for now is translating our content. And creating specific blog post so we should be releasing our blog post next month-ish. So we're still getting stories in. So our short-term goals are a lot about stories, written articles and reaching out to other ex-Muslims.

Long-term goals: the way I see Faithless Hijabi is working alongside with other ex-Muslim organisations. We would like to specialise in helping women with their rights: with helping them encouraging their rights. So I think, in the long term, we're hoping that it will grow enough to be recognised globally. And hopefully, create an online community which we have not yet stepped into. Only because we have a lot of activity to do before we can create that. So I think, long-term goals would be actually creating a community of ex-Muslim women.

Are there any sister organisations of Faithless Hijabi outside the UK?

Zara Kay: So Faithless Hijabi is actually registered in Australia as a charity. Only because I'm Australian and I'm temporarily in the UK. But Faithless Hijabi is a global movement. So we're mostly based online regardless of being set up in Australia. We have one person working from the Middle East. You have two of us working in the UK. One or two people working in Australia. So, that's the way we've been put up. But in terms of sister organisations, I would think parts of what we do resemble with a lot of organisations which are in the UK already based a lot of other existing organisations like EXMNA [Ex-Muslims of North America], CEMB [Council of Ex-Muslims of Britain]. I help run the Australian ex-Muslim group as much as I can from being in distance. So the partner organisations are pretty much the ex-Muslim organisations. But also others that could coincide with the Free From Hijab movement. I think a lot of what we do can partly resemble with many other organisations. We've tried to narrow down what we'd like to specialise in.

What are the struggles of a Muslim woman in present day and age?

Zara Kay: I think with being Muslim there there exists anti-Muslim bigotry, especially, for hijabis. And well, I don't personally endorse the hijāb, I would never let anybody else be a subject for anti-Muslim bigotry. So I think, at present, Muslim women: one they either suffer with identity crisis especially in the West, where they've been told to wear a hijāb. They're not sure of wearing the hijāb but at the same time, they're there is so much anti-Muslim bigotry in the West that it's one of those things that you hold so dear to yourself. Because everybody else doesn't want you to, if that makes sense. Because there's so many Muslim women being attacked. Even I would stand up, especially, for those women. And sometimes a lot of girls will do it by wearing the hijāb. So I think, with Muslim women, there is struggle to our identity issues. Also, being the subject of anti-Muslim bigotry is a big one. But, a lot of it has to come down: some girls that I helped are actually victims of double standards in their family. So the boys would get different rights, the girls would get different rights. I never had to face that. But a lot of other girls actually have that as a main concern.

What are the struggles of an ex-Muslim woman in present day and age?

Zara Kay: A lot, actually. One, there's ostracism at it place. So while you're in your new identity, you're still really scared to be out there. Weather out there means leaving home, or weather out there means being online in public. Ex-Muslims are the minority of the minority. We have been ostracised, we have been abused. We constantly get threats. We're constantly in the face of violence, or in the face of being undermined. Our free-speech is revoked. And there's so many other struggles that we face as ex-Muslims as a whole. But with women, there is a lot of sexual harassment that comes into play. The moment you don't wear a hijāb: even if you're a Muslim woman that doesn't wears a hijāb, a Muslim woman will still be respected more than an ex-Muslim woman. They could be wearing the same clothes, but because you left the faith, you're now in the light of being called a society-slut. Like, the modesty culture has dependent on women forever, right? So even if they're women who don't wear a hijāb, those women will attack ex-Muslim women for not wearing the same thing. But their response is "at least I'm still a Muslim". So I think, you know, harassment is a big thing. And also being accepted in the society, or just even being accepted by the society is a big thing. And you lose out your friends and you know, there's a lot of mental health issues that comes about it, especially because, if you don't have any support while you're finding yourself, you tend to lose yourself even more. Because there's so much negativity associated with that. But I've only seen and heard from so many brave ex-Muslims who have been through hell and back. And despite being alone they've stood up, they've stood out and fallen, and they've stood up and risen. That's amazing to watch how strong all of these women are.

Portrait of Rahaf Mohammed in 2019, when she requested help from the UNHCR.
Fair Use image credit: Rahaf Mohammed

Previously have worked with Rahaf Mohammed, right?

Zara Kay I did work with Rahaf. So my role with Rahaf: it wasn't like an aligned role. I was in the plane from London to Sydney and somebody flagged, "Hey there's a girl who's in Thailand and she's an ex-Muslim girl". And that was Rahaf had just come out [as an apostate]. And my role there was to make sure she was okay. And when she asked for help, I didn't know who to go to, but I looked at other people helping and I collaborated with them. And my role there was to make sure that as an ex-Muslim she's being heard, and that she's being safe. And if that involves contacting the UNHCR or contacting the government here, or writing letters, or working with people who are already helping here. That's what my role encompassed. Like putting pieces together. I feel like her story was taken away by the media for being a Saudi women who had run away from male guardianship laws versus being an apostate and a Saudi women. So apostasy has just been erased from all of it. And her running away, and you know, when other ex-Muslim spoke about it, it shed a bit of light on the ex-Muslim as a society, I guess, or ex-Muslim as a practice. Like a practice of disbelief.

What do you think are the hurdles around the globe about discussing the questions related to Islam?

Zara Kay: I think there is a lot of political correctness [PC]. Even when people share their experiences, their experiences are mostly tarnished by left — the regressive left — who name it as "oh it's part of your culture". But it shouldn't be. A bad idea whether it's in a culture or religion should not be endorsed at all.

So do you find more resistance from Muslims, or Western non-Muslims when you criticise Islam?

Zara Kay: I feel like ex-Muslims have been cornered by the right-wing, because they will take advantage of ex-Muslims to further their anti-Muslim bigotry. And the left-wing would criticise ex-Muslims for speaking up about Islam or their experiences. And the Muslim right, who are like the Muslim right wing who is more of the Salāfi — very extremist practice — who disregard you for ever being a Muslim. Because if you were every Muslim you wouldn't have left [Islam]. And the left[-wing], who talk about them not being represented as real Muslims, because they are not as extreme as the right wing. So there's — in the Muslim world — there's always this question on who is the right Muslim. And that's why ex-Muslims, when they come out, and they decide to criticise the [Islamic] scripture: each side will attack them saying, "Oh, but we're not homophopic, my sister is gay", "So I reject this verse". But then the [Muslim] right-wing will go like "No you cannot be a homosexual. That's it. You just can't criticise that part of Islam. Because God has made you to love women if you're a man". So I think, the challenge is the non-Muslim left-and-right wing, and the Muslim left-and-right wing. And ex-Muslims are at the centre of all of it. And they're abused even more by all of the sides. And they're criticised that much.

How do you cope with this?

Zara Kay: I have pretty much: with the negativity that comes about, I'm pretty much distanced myself. So, in terms of the way I use social media, I will put up a post, put up a meme, turn off notifications, and then let it go. sometimes, I do tend to engage, but it's also reminding myself that I'm only going a rabbit hole. And that there's no real outcome to all of that. And that I should I should speak to people where I can make changes. And let go of those for just beyond changes.

Just recently [last June], I posted up the "Allah is gay" photo, and I had a lot of backlash and a lot of celebrities — some celebrities complained about it. But at the same time, I had women who came up to me and she's like, "Look, if you have any questions about Islam, I'm happy to answer, but I don't like your post". And I'm like, "I am ex-Muslim. I studied Islam for a long time. What makes you think that I have questions? I don't. I've never asked a question like that since I've come out. I'm quite happy with my decision." And another girl came out to me, started swearing at me, and then I was like, "Look, the only person who's been disrespectful in this discourse is you. All I've done is stated my views. I'm not swearing at you." And she, in response, said "Your dad is gay". And I'm like, "That's okay. I still love him. It doesn't matter." Like you know, gay people to me are not a threat or a disgust: I don't really care. And then she's like, "You seem like a nice person. Stop offending people." And I am like, "Think about it. Why are you offended?" Right? Every time I ask this question, people are like, "But he's my god." And I'm like, "Yes, and if you know your scripture, then you should know, that there's so many things about your scripture that even you would disagree with." And they're like, "Yeah, but...". You can see there you can see their wheels turning. So I have tried sometimes — mostly with women — talking to my abusers. It's like: confronting my abusers and why they hate me. And that engagement gives me more satisfaction than engaging in somebody in a rabbit hole.

Does the internalised-misogyny in Islam pose a significant threat to others?

Zara Kay: Apart from what's already out there, it's just a matter of the ones who practice it. So there are a percentage — a very small percentage — of people who are fundamentalist; and then there are conservative; and then there are liberals. The ones that we fear the most are not conservatives, they're extremists who would literally take the Word of God, and act upon it. And there are definitely some parts of Islam, there are a lot of liberals would also disagree with: homophobia being one of them. Unequal rights for women being another. And also just, like, the killing of non-believers, polytheists or something that has happened in history, that has been substantiated by "Oh, it was defence". But ISIS seems to take that word literally. They would also kill Muslims, who are liberal. So it looks like Islam in itself has been destructive to itself. And their practices have been destructive to the world, as compared to a secular world.

You recently attended the London pride where you posed with the sign "Allah is Gay". Did you carry that sign? Or did you just pose?

Zara Kay: I only posed with it. So I didn't go for the march, I couldn't make it to the march. I was not feeling well. But I only posed with it. I did however see them passed by, and there were a lot of people who were cheering for those who were in it. I felt really proud to have known those people, because it's great. And I didn't think my photo would go viral, I really did not expect so much negativity to come about it. I'm hoping that in a few days it will shut down, but it looks like there is so much going. So I have just turned off the notification. But, I think, for the most part, there weren't any Muslims out there that I could see. Nobody in a headscarf that I could see. So, most of the people out there were just like, happy. They were just they like they don't really care; they just wanted more acceptance. People were just there to be happy. But, I think, it was one of those very few days where I didn't see a lot of Muslims in the city.

Zara Kay posed with the sign reading "Allah is Gay" on July 6, 2019
Fair Use image credit: Zara Kay

What would you say about that sign: being being an anti-theist, and then saying "Allah is Gay"?

Zara Kay: As contradictory as it sounds, if you think about it, in your narrative, if somebody who's a theist, who accepts Allah as being a God, their God, or one of the gods, right? Him being gay would only be offensive if you're homophobic, right? Had I said "Allah is not gay", nobody would have that descent. I say if "Allah is straight", nobody would really care, would they? So, I think this highlights the negativity that is being associated with being gay. As a person who doesn't believe, and when I read that, I could have said Peter Pan is gay. And because he doesn't exist, it doesn't matter to me. It could be a figment of my imagination.

So the idea for that was one to normalise that being gay is okay. I don't understand: no, I think I understand, why people have taken it in a very crude way. But it's also because they cannot comprehend that being gay is okay. Well, I know it has provoked a lot of people, the way people have responded to it: now I have a few Muslim friends who are like, "I don't really care if you say Allah is gay. He could be. He could be not. I don't know", right? So yeah, I have had Muslim friends respond to it and I was like, "Very few people think like that". See, like now I know that you're a peaceful person, right? And, the way the majority of the people have responded have just highlighted that despite "Jesus being queer" as a poster, "Allah being gay" had more of an outrage: it had a lot of an outrage. It just highlights the domination that Islam has over other religion, and why, if we had to rank as one of the most dangerous ideology, Islam would take the rank. And it has a lot to do with its political identity in this landscape. You know, taking dominance over other religion. And while there is an increased rate of birth rate, there is also an increased rate of extremism and terrorist activities that come about Islamic terrorism.

What are the recurring insults you have received because of your volunteer work and your stance against Islam?

Zara Kay: A lot of them have to do with sexual harassment from: the way I look, to my hair, my [sexual-]orientation. So I'm straight, but because I'm a supporter of LGBT; because I'm an ally of the LGBT community; I have been called a lot of different names. A lot of it has to do with the way I look, which doesn't really affect me. Because I like the way I look. But most of it has to do with calling me a bitch, calling me a slut, like all the negative connotations you can you associate a woman with. So yeah, it's a lot of sexual harassment: like 90% of it is sexual harassment.

What would you suggest [for] other fellow ex-Muslims to cope with it?

Zara Kay: I think it is important to have a healthy balance with social media to help a healthy relationship. Understand when your body is psychologically rejecting the negativity. And once it does that or once you see yourself getting into a Twitter fight, or Instagram fight, you shut it. So having a healthy relationship with social media. Also being less affected by what people think of you. If you truly think you're doing the right thing, take feedback only from those people who you would seek advice from.

And that doesn't mean everybody in the world. That could possibly mean just your close friend. So don't let what other people think of you bring you down. Yeah, I think that's how I would see it.

How does the PC culture affect important discussions about Islam?

Zara Kay: I think a lot of people: lot of the left-half try to regress our voices because it is offensive to ones culture or religion. But they don't take it by the subject-matter, they have found it difficult to be objective in our arguments. And that has affected so many from raising their voices. But that has also brought many together to raise their voices. And because the left is being really regressive, a lot of the attention that ex-Muslims get is from the right-wing instead of those who can be centre and objective about things. I feel like a lot of ex-Muslims have been taken advantage of by the right-wing. That is one of the negativity that comes out of it because we're then being used to fuel anti-Muslim bigotry as an example.

But it's also because, I think, the left not giving us a platform to talk about it and always continuing to shut us down. It's only highlighting the bigotry that they hold. It is an encouragement of bad ideas, intersectional feminism is probably the worst thing that has happened to us as as ex-Muslim or ex-Muslim women, where we're being held by a different standards for feminism. But we don't get the same rights for feminism. And situations like Iran and Saudi Arabia are examples of it. When the Western lefties did not fight for women in Saudi Arabia, they're still always under the precaution of, "oh but it's their culture. They are allowed to do it." However, if the same world's law is applied to their country they would be totally against it. It feels like they've been projecting a lot of bigotry which impacts us as ex-Muslims to be critical of, because we're labeled bigots or well labeled as Islamophobes, or Zionists or a Zionist supporter. So we've been given this title that we don't even hold to put us down. And sometimes can put a lot of people in a position to not talk anymore.

Can you shed light on Islamophobia and Muslimphobia?

Zara Kay: So I think Islamophobia is a made-up term. And it is a term that stops conversation or dialogue about Islam, in general. Any of those that doesn't shed Islam in a good light, it stops any criticism of an ideology. Because it gives it a special privilege to not be criticised. Which is really unfair. And, there is no other religion that has a phobia attached to it. So it makes you think, "Why Islam is the only one which has it". I don't like the definition of Islamophobia, which is prejudiced against Muslim and Islam. People have every right to disagree with an idea. People have every right to criticise an idea. But you can't treat human beings with any less dignity. And that's where I feel like the word needs to be replaced with anti-Muslim bigotry. I have a Muslim family myself. So I would only talk about things that I genuinely know that if this was told to my Muslim family they wouldn't be happy: they would feel insulted, alright? If they're legit concerns about them being ill-treated, like, I've read a lot of far-rights talk about: "we don't need any Muslims here, Muslims should just go back to where they came from". And that's a no. But if they say we don't need Shari'a law, I would agree with that. We don't need Islamic law to run our country. I would agree with that. Nobody needs it. A lot of Muslims would also disagree with it.

How does anti-Muslim bigotry affect non-Muslims, or ex-Muslims, better say?

Zara Kay: I think, to me personally, anti-Muslim bigotry: well, bigotry or extremism of any form is unhealthy. It is a violation of people's civil rights. It is treating a human being less than what you would treat others. The way it affects us is because the more we encourage it, we're encouraging a world of violence. The more we're encouraging those views. And I am personally affected because I still have Muslim friends and family. And I don't hold any prejudice against people who practice a faith in their homes.

I have no problem them practicing it in their homes, provided it doesn't affect the world outside, or the public sphere. But anti-Muslim bigotry, I think, to me, I'm always reminded of "what if my family were in that situation? "What if they were told go back to where you came from?" I think every person who values people's rights should be fighting against anti-Muslim bigotry. And that doesn't mean that you have to allow the ideas that are bad for humankind to glow. It's important to segregate them and it is definitely hard to do it when you don't want those ideas that you're criticising impacts the people that follow it. Because they have been — for the most part — many of them have not read their books, many of them don't know why they're in the religion except where they were born in it. I would like to think that people are better than ideas like that. But a lot of them have never been given the opportunity to question it, to either leave or to become better. People despite following the spiritual path of Islam. I feel like the political part of Islam always takes dominance over a little fundamentalist and conservative Muslims.

What do you think of the burkā bans that countries like France are pushing forward, citing the secular beliefs?

Zara Kay: I'm not a particular fan of bans that aims to police a woman's body, like, in terms of the burkā ban. There are two sides to look at it. And this is a more centrist position. One: we're doing the same thing [as mandating burkā], which is policing a woman's body by not having them wear it. And two, in the name of security, yes the ban is very applicable. But it's really hard to have a position that can be both right to me and still not project the contradiction that I always have. While I am optimistic about it, that I feel like I can help women come out of wearing the hijāb, it's still a future that I don't see happening. So with burkā ban, I guess I am mostly in for it and. And I accept that there does project a security risk when you cover your face. So no face covering should be allowed of any form. And it shouldn't be targeted to just the burkā. Because it does project again an anti-Muslim bigotry. But any masks, or anything that in the public should be banned for security.

At the same time, if when you think about it, there's so many girls that I have spoken to had worn the burkā unwillingly, at the age of 10 or 11. They didn't choose to wear it. That kid is in grade five or six. They don't know what's happening. So in a way, that it's quite good that a country like Sweden are voting to create a bill that kids under, I think, under 18 or 16 should not be wearing the burkā.

Last Friday, the Tunisian Prime Minister signed a decree banning niqāb. Are you aware of that?

Zara Kay: I don't know much about Tunisia, to be honest. I only know that there was a gay, I think, Member of Parliament voting, to become the president. But I don't know much about the burka ban.

**Well as it happened, on June 27 [2019], there are two suicide bombings in the capital [city of Tunis], and eyewitnesses said that the suicide bomber was wearing a niqāb, and hence, they went for a niqāb-ban in public institutions.

Zara Kay: Well, this is again an example of they actually have data and people that are actually doing acts in, you know, in like the burka ban. So, I think, it's a good thing because right now, they actually have those data to support the burkā ban. But yeah, interesting. I didn't know about it. I'm just reading it up now.

Do you find security reason as a valid reason to impose such bans?

Zara Kay: Yeah, absolutely. Bad ideas are bad ideas. It's just like FGM [Female Genital Mutilation]. I'm not comparing the burka to FGM in a way, but like, just in light of what bad ideas are, FGM is bad. Although some people do find it good, and religious, and halāl, and everything: that is still a bad idea and we should take it as such. If the burka has a negative consequence in the country where it is likely to get terrorist attack by women wearing burkā, and now they've also had security concerns for it, I think that's a valid reason for it.

How can the situation for an ex-Muslim be improved around the globe?

Zara Kay: I think having ex-Muslims speak more, defend our rights to speak: because a lot of time we are always in the face of criticism. Defending their rights to speak is one good thing. Having the left explore "how we can further help to create a better world": I feel like in the end we want a better world. If that means to criticise bad ideas, then we need to work together to criticise that ideas regardless of whose religious feelings it affects. I think it's important to put tangible outcomes in the face of those bad ideas: What happens if we don't talk about this idea. What happens if we continue to have extremist groups in our country. Or how can we improve the outlook of the people who are, you know, who are subjected to FGM, or were subjected to forced hijāb. Forced hijāb is again policing a woman's body people who don't want to wear it: some people who want to wear it. I think it should be a choice. Even though like essentially, I don't think it was ever a choice but the only way we can counter this, is there educating women to get their rights. I think ex-Muslims movement can drastically improve when we have more awareness, more exposure to different platforms. I think even just normalising that it's okay to leave, it's okay to come out, and providing, you know, having laws that criminalise apostasy: countering those laws of those countries is already a great help for many ex-Muslims. Because the ex-Muslim movement is on the rise, mostly because it is criminalised. You face a lot of abuse, ostracism: it's never been easy for any of us to be. I don't know one ex-Muslim who has found it easy to leave. There always comes a little: either like s mental trauma, with just to you accepting that, "Hey you were born as a Muslim. You used to believe that homosexuality is bad. And that you hated gay people." It's really hard to come to another place where you're like, "You know what, this is what the new world is like." I am constantly learning. I'm constantly unpacking things.

Is reforming a religion going to do any good?

Zara Kay: I don't think Islam can ever be reformed. One reason being the politics involved in Islam, and the fact the book — the Qur'an — is a literal word of God, and the Sunnah is a practices of Muhammad, that are valid in this: in the time he was alive, and every time. I don't think it can ever be reformed. I think people reform, people progress, people reject ideas. I don't think there will be a Qur'an 2.0. So, I don't see it as point of reforming at all. However, I am going to support those liberal Muslims, and reformers into fighting to create a better world. But I personally don't see it reforming.

Do I think there's the need to reform? If there was a possibility, yes, it would be great [...] Even with Christianity, a lot of it has not reformed. Homosexuality, as we know it, is still looked down upon; misogyny still exists. I feel like a lot of the Abrahamic religion[s] have: despite evolving, despite having Islam present, which takes up the lead indignation; a lot of them are still not equal to women's rights. You know, any good Christian like any practicing conservative Christian household would have different standards for their girls and the boys. And I mentioned homosexuality is a big thing only because it was the Pride that came out. But there's a lot of homophobia going on in Twitter since London Pride. It's not only coming from the Muslims. It's coming from Christians as well. A lot of it. So, thing is, a lot of people will criticise Christianity for it, but they won't say anything about Islam for it. Because, you know, how could you talk about the religion of Islam? It is always shunned down. Every voice, like we discussed earlier, has always been regressed.

Maajid Nawaz is one of the reformists of Islam.
Credit: eregis/CC BY 2.0

What are some of the books they would suggest others read?

Zara Kay: The first book that I read was The Atheist Muslim by Ali Rizvi who is a friend of mine. I really like that book. There's so much as a Shi'a, and him being a Shi'a, I could relate to. And The Moral Landscape is pretty good. I only read it half way, but I really like Sam Harris. I like the way constructs an argument. And I like the way he talks about it. And, I have a list: Maajid Nawaz is a good person to follow for a more reformist point of view. I find his ideas to be very balanced. Despite being a Muslim himself, I find him to be more welcoming to ex-Muslims. Richard Dawkins can be somebody who is: not for curious Muslims, but for those who've already come out. It's a very good book to kind of tell them how God is an illusion.

And, yeah, and then the other books I read had a lot to do with evolution: Homo Deus [by Yuval Noah Hariri], understanding the world from a different lens. I read Guns, Germs, and Steel, but I guess, I would suggest The Atheist Muslim, Why There is No God by Armin Navabi and Sam Harris' The Moral Landscape and Richard Dawkins' The God Delusion.

Zara Kay with Armin Navabi.
Fair Use image credit: Zara Kay

Just to be on the same page, I think maybe you misheard the question. It was almost a similar one. What are some of the books you would suggest others to read.

Zara Kay: Who are the others we are talking about?

Like any other person who is skeptical of their faith. Or in general.

Zara Kay: Yeah, [The] Atheist Muslim by Ali Rizvi is good for Muslims. He talks about his thought process. Why There is No God by Armin Navabi. [The] Moral Landscape by Sam Harris. I am currently reading Enlighten Now by Steven Pinker. And [The] God Delusion.

Is there anything else you would like to add?

Zara Kay: Not really.

Well, thank you so much! All right, it was nice talking to you.

Links

Original interview

Related news

• Iranian International Master Dorsa Derakhshani discusses her chess career with Wikinews — April 14, 2020
• Tunisian Prime Minister signs decree to ban face veils in public institutions, government offices — July 8, 2019
• New Zealand mosque murder suspect appears in court at Christchurch — March 17, 2019
• Pakistan Supreme Court acquits Asia Bibi from blasphemy charges after eight years of confinement — November 3, 2018
• Dutch senate votes in favour of face veil ban — June 29, 2018
• Sudanese teenager sentenced to death for killing husband while raping her — May 13, 2018
• Pakistan court sentences one man to death penalty, and life imprisonment to five others for Mashal Khan lynching incident — February 10, 2018
• Mosque vandalized near Seattle, Washington — November 24, 2016
• Saudi Arabian court convicts poet of apostasy, sentences to death — November 21, 2015
• France first to enforce burqa ban — April 12, 2011
• 'Stop being so damn respectful' say free speech supporters in London — February 11, 2012
• Afghanistan women protest Shia Family Law — April 19, 2009
• Malaysian court rules Christian woman can't remove Islam from ID — May 31, 2007
• Iranian Grand Ayatollah Makarem-Shirazi urges compulsory hijab — May 23, 2007
• Execution of two gay teens in Iran spurs controversy — July 23, 2005

Sources

• "Faithless Hijabi on Facebook" — Facebook, July 6, 2020 (date of access)
• "Faithless Hijabi on Instagram" — Instagram, July 12, 2020 (date of access)
• Stephen Johnson. "'I was called a sl*t for taking off my hijab': Student, 26, who renounced Islam reveals she still receives death threats for ditching the religion – and says hundreds more women are living in fear" — Daily Mail, January 14, 2019
• Peter Kenyon. "In Iran Protests, Women Stand Up, Lift Their Hijab, For Their Rights" — NPR, August 3, 2018
• Samuel Osborne. "Iranian woman 'sentenced to 20 years in prison' for removing headscarf in protest" — The Independent, July 10, 2018
• Real Time With Bill Maher. "Maajid Nawaz Interview | Real Time with Bill Maher (HBO)" — YouTube, June 23, 2017

External links

• "Faithless Hijabi" — July 6, 2020 (date of access)
• Zara Kay. "Zara Kay on Twitter" — Twitter, July 6, 2019
• Zara Kay. "Zara Kay on Twitter" — Twitter, January 29, 2019
• Zara Kay. "Zara Kay on Twitter" — Twitter, January 29, 2019

Categories this article belonged to

• Africa
• Atheism
• Australia
• Crime and law
• Europe
• Free speech
• Human rights
• Interview
• Islam
• Middle East
• Oceania
• Original reporting
• Politics and conflicts
• Religion
• Tanzania
• United Kingdom
• Women's rights

This article was copyedited by the following Wikinewsies: Pi zero, Bddpaux, Matthiasb, Green Giant and JJLiu112.

This article also relies on multiple non-free images under the Fair Use doctrine — which are used for the purpose of identification and discussion central to this interview and greatly help the audience understand it.

Dated June 3, 2020

... I would like to speak to you. But since I can't — and you would have to read, instead of listening — I would like to set the tone — which my words will merely fail to convey.

I am not trying to be arrogant here. Or angry. Or emotional mess. I want to convince you to be on the same side of this issue. I reach out to you with nothing but the confidence you'd use your conscience wisely.

I am going to ask questions. My goal is to make you think, by asking questions. Wherever you see a "ط", please pause to think and understand the question. I don't expect you would answer me — just let the questions make you think: sleep on it if you would like to. That is all that I expect.

To everyone who is appalled by the death of the pregnant elephant¹:

I am continuously astonished by the outpouring of condemnation people have expressed to this unfortunate incident.
And I am glad instead of staying silent, and ruling this case hopeless; you chose to speak against this cruelty. It humbles me to see people unanimously standing up for these animals. Thank you for being the voice of those who truly need it.

When I woke up this morning, I saw the stories about the pregnant elephant who died after she allegedly ate a pineapple which had explosives in it. It exploded in her mouth; and damaged her jaw: as she died at a river, bleeding.
The media reported this is a tactic used to shoo off the wild boars.

Concerned people (the target audience of this letter) posted stories about this online, the hashtags trended on Twitter, Bollywood actors² and cricketers³ expressed outrage; some dedicated a web-comic⁴ or a poem⁵ about it.

I was painfully made aware of this situation: thanks to you fellow people who also share the sentiment this was wrong.

But as the day went on, and I saw stories upon stories, hashtags and tweets; I just could not understand the reason behind this uproar on social media. I am glad you people are not silent, but what made you so concerned?

You seem to hold the opinion of what happened was evil. But what about the said incident was actually evil?
Think about this:

Why were you *actually* upset?

• Are you distressed because the animal died?
  Would you still have posted stories if she had not died — just badly disfigured her jaw but somehow survived?
• Does the death of the unborn baby make you revolt in anger? The fact that an animal — which did nothing wrong, who wasn't even born yet — makes you call this incident evil?
• Is it the death of the to-be mother elephant?
  Would you have shown the same empathy if the elephant was not pregnant? Why?
• Would you have expressed the same anger, had it been a male elephant?
• Was it the animal that died?
  Using fruits with explosives to scare off wild boars is a common thing — now it is the norm. Farmers want to keep boars away from their crops, and they find explosives more effective than a strong fence.
  • Would there be a similar outrage, had a pregnant wild boar died instead of this elephant? Would you still express your grief in a tweet if the victim was a boar, or a pig or a goat? Why?
• Or was it the manner of her death?
  Maybe if she didn't die because an explosive went off in her mouth — what if she was poached by a gun? Or someone slit her throat, and let her bleed her to death in pain? Would that make any difference?
• Or was it because her death accounted for nothing?
  Would it ease your conscience, knowing she didn't die in vain: as some people cut her body parts, and cooked it for lunch? Or will that make your blood boil? Why? How about a peacock?

The more I saw reactions by concerned people like you, the more I felt *this* story is getting all the attention because it is a rare incident.
I hope that is not true.

1. You know, in the last few years, the United States dropped more than 26 thousand bombs in the Middle East, The Guardian reported.⁶
2. The New York Times reported Russia dropped bombs on hospitals in Syria. Imagine hurting the sick and the wounded.⁷
3. An article published by the BBC in 2015 reported Saudi Arabia did air-strikes on areas of civilian population in Yemen.⁸

26 thousand bombs. Dropping bombs on hospitals. Killing civilians in air-strikes.

Maybe you didn't even hear about it. Maybe you did. But honestly tell me, did you feel a sense of revolt from within knowing there? Did you raise the concerns back then?

If another bomb goes off in Syria, maybe we might not care about the human lives lost. You know why? Because we are used to that news. It is common. It has become the new "normal". It is the norm. What we are not used to is a police officer choking a civilian to death in broad daylight in the US⁹. That is why we all rave with anger.

Had a protester killed in Hong Kong, or an activist killed in Pakistan, are we vocal enough? Perhaps not. That is the "norm".

An elephant killed by an explosive isn't the normal news. It makes us think. It makes us question. We all want to see the perpetrators being prosecuted.
But tell me: Why do we not extend the same empathy to other animals? Why do we let countless animals die every moment, for meat? What is something so fundamentally different about this incident which got your attention; but not when you are aware animals are treated inhumanely.

Is an animal getting killed because of a bomb too much — but many other animals let bled to death somehow okay?

I tried to reach out to some of you people. They agreed everything about this was wrong. But as soon as I made the connection with the meat industry; they felt the conversation was uncomfortable. Yes; it really is. And maybe because we have been avoiding it for so long, that we think eating animals is a "norm".

I am not trying to debate you; no, I want you to put your conscience to work; and think about this. What is your explanation? Do you agree with the following quote?

"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."
— George Orwell, Animal Farm

I would understand if you agree with the above sentiment.

There are some fundamental duties, a sapient mind like ours should fulfil. If you have felt what happened was wrong, please use this opportunity to think about the sufferings humans have been inflicting on animals.

I am not shaming you; or guilt-tripping you. That does not work. I want you to challenge your beliefs and justify to yourself what your stance is. If you have been silent before, please don't stay silent now. And if you think you alone can't make a difference, just see: the death of one elephant did unite us. So please, stand up for the injustice these beings suffer.

I write this encouraging you to think. You can decide the how's and what's per your needs, how they suit you; what you want to do. Please do not let the "common" things become the new "normal". None of this is normal. Should we have a right to kill someone? If so, under what circumstances?

Right now, this isn't the norm; people are still talking about it. You can really make an impact. So, please think!
When something happens all the time, we start accepting it. It would be great if we could stand united in the defence of animals and how we treat them. But right now, I hope you at least consider questioning the "norms".

We don't generally talk about these issues; it makes us restless. So did this gruesome incident. Use this opportunity for reevaluating what has been the "norm". Don't let the death of this elephant go away like this.

All I would like to say is:

Use your conscience wisely.

References

• ^[1] Kerala elephant death: CM Pinarayi, other leaders call out hate campaign, bigotry June 4, 2020 (Archived link)
• ^[2] Kerala elephant death: Anushka to Alia, Bollywood demands stricter laws against animal cruelty June 3, 2020 (Archived link)
• ^[3] Virat Kohli "Appalled" By Killing Of Pregnant Elephant In Kerala June 4, 2020 (Archived link)
• ^[4] green_humour on Instagram June 3, 2020
• ^[5] Not so fruitful. June 3, 2020 (Archived link)
• ^[6] America dropped 26,171 bombs in 2016. What a bloody end to Obama's reign January 9, 2017 (Archived link)
• ^[7] 12 Hours. 4 Syrian Hospitals Bombed. One Culprit: Russia. October 13, 2019 (Archived link)
• ^[8] Yemen conflict: UN criticises Saudi civilian bombings May 10, 2015 (Archived link)
• ^[9] George Floyd death: Minneapolis police station torched amid protest May 29, 2020 (Archived link)

Dated December 16, 2019

This is what my friend wrote today, after the unsecular and unconstitutional things happening in India:

It’s hard not to tear up.
It’s harder to find words and stand up.

I see what I love turning into something I fear.
I want back what was once dear.

I want to be there for people who have suffered harm.
Not my home to be the animal farm.

Due to the unfortunate scenario we are living in, she thinks it is "for the better" not to put her name. And for that, I say:

Dated July 4, 2019

I don't know much about the period. Except for the obvious things including the painful five-to-seven days, the unannounced arrival of this un-welcomed guest who is annoying; but would not go even if you beg. I also know what my science textbook and my female friends mentioned.

Females bleed for five fucking days, and still manage to work. And that is terrifying. I consider them to be very strong. And to maintain the balance between these tolerant and strong godess-like beings—and—meek and miserable people (I am talking about that boy in my mirror who stares back); I exist. When I have a paper cut, I whine for at least 30 minutes. I am so glad I never have to menstruate—imagine bleeding for five days; if you haven't already died due to pain. I hate paper cuts and they are fucking painful. (I better not get one, now that I have mentioned it.)

I can't do much about paper cuts, or period. But at least can help a female by carrying her bag, or buying them food they like (pizza and tacos are a safe bet), or at the very least—not to annoy them—I don't want to be killed!

But I am willing to bet I don't know much about periods. Especially the darned phrases. I just can't seem to understand them!

"Lost my period." I was about to leave for college yesterday when my friend said that. "Lost my period." Okay. "So?" I thought what is the big deal? "It has been two weeks", I responded. Come on! I know the period happens once in a month, hence the name "monthly" (except for the irregular cycles of this non-deterministic calamity), and it had been just two weeks since she had her periods. And I was thinking: isn't this a good thing? No pain! Turns out I got it wrong. "Lost my period means I [...] got it", she replied. "I'm bleeding".

You lost something—and at the same time, you got it?

What kind of sorcery is that? How was I to know it meant the opposite of what it read? Lost the period? Why would you call it "losing"? That is beyond what my brain can comprehend. Why not say, "I got my periods"? When a pregnant lady gives birth to the child; she does not say "I lost my baby".
In all fairness, she does not say, "I got my baby" either. But she definitely did not lose the kid.
I used this analogy to convince myself that usage was wrong. I responded saying: "Then you definitely did not lose it."

Think about it, the menstrual blood is right there in the sanitary napkin. A few drops here and there, but "lost"? I am lost for words—the one who authored this phrase must either be an idiot, or someone who did not understand the logic.

Let me tell you about other things people lose:

• People lose their weight.
• People lose their shit.
• People lose their virginity.
• People lose their cool.
• People lose their patience.

Tell me if people "get" any of those while losing at the same time.

Suggestion for ladies: prefer to say "I am on my periods", if "I am menstruating" sounds weird; or your fear the auto-correct is going to change it to "I am masturbating". Your partner might think you are pregnant if you say "I lost my period".

Now, this confrontation [with the weird phrase] made me think "I missed my period" does not make sense either. For you to miss the event, the event should occur and you should have not attended it. When I say "I missed the train", it means the train left and I could not board the train. If the train was cancelled, there would have been no train to miss in the first place.

"I missed the doomsday!" No, I did not. It did not occur, for me to miss it.
When I missed the train; if the train could speak, it would not say "I missed a passenger". It would say, "A passenger did not show up."

So, you did not "miss the period". The brutal bloodshed did not show up. Hooray! Go get ice cream. And a pregnancy test kit.

Do people think before they author these phrases?

Languages are tools we use to express ourselves in a better and clearer way. Some of the English phrases are weird. As my classmate, Devang, once tweeted: "Why are priceless and worthless antonyms rather than synonyms?"

But none of these three is as bad as this phrase in Hindi: "मैं तुम्हारे बच्चे के माँ बनने वाली हूँ!" It is not related to the menstrual cycle, but hear me out. It translates to "I will be becoming the mother of your kid!" Hindi TV soaps and movies feature this sentence when a female tells the male she is pregnant. She could simply say "मैं गर्भवती हूँ", but no; they got to say some confusing shit. You may argue the former translation is not accurate and it should be "I am going to be your child's mother".

"So what?" I ask. So fucking what? That sentence is still incorrect. To begin with, in that scenario, pregnancy is in the present continuous tense. You are the host of the future child. The female is not undergoing metamorphosis like a caterpillar who is transforming into a butterfly, which it is implied in the original sentence. Though the pregnant lady's body structure in the uterus is drastically changing. And even if she was undergoing metamorphosis, the child is not born yet to truthify this claim. The female is incubating the baby, or fœtus depending on the stage of pregnancy. You are not about to, on becoming a mother of someone else's child. You are pregnant with a baby. The zygote is turning to embryo, then fœtus, which will turn into a baby.
Please do not utter random set of words that are logically inconsistent or ambiguous.

If a person is hearing "I lost my period", they would not go check if there are enough sanitary pads. As someone who has lost their appetite would not check if there is food in the fridge, and they might go see a doctor.

Speak clearly. And not gibbrish. What you say should make sense.

Suggestion for everyone: go speak to someone who knows about menstruation. It is important to learn about reproductive health even if you can't menstruate.

Dated May 21, 2019

I have my semester end exams approaching, and I decided it would be best if I were to read something — of course not related to the exam. So I picked The Spy, written by Brazilian author Paulo Coelho, translated from Português by Zoë Perry.

The novel is about a Dutch exotic dancer, executed for espionage. It is fictionalised story of Margaretha Zelle, who is better known by her stage name Mata Hari.

Now, the novel is quite short, narrated through two letters, one each by Mata Hari, and her lawyer. For what it is worth, it is very likely she was executed before exchanging the letters.
I really liked the style of storytelling. The letter Mata Hari wrote is about her life, set in the late nineteenth century to the second decade of the twentieth.

The prologue is quite interesting, which attracts the attention — it is the description of the morning Mata Hari was executed by the firing squad — who chose not to be blindfolded, who "did not move a muscle", who "remained impassive, showing no fear".

By far, the prologue was the best thing this novel could offer. I had a hardcover book. And when you open it, the first thing you would read:

Her only crime was to be an independent woman

In her letter, Mata Hari speaks about her childhood, raped by her school principal when she was sixteen-years-old and went to marry someone roughly double of her age. Her husband would ask her to describe the rape incident and have sexual intercourse with her in a similar fashion.

She did not like her life, left all of it, and went to the French capital Paris. Mata Hari wanted freedom. She became an exotic dancer who stripped naked on-stage, faked an orgasm in front of a statue of Hindu god Shiv, and even admitted the exotic dance she did — of the East Indies, or ancient Egypt weren't accurate, but nobody knew or could figure out.

Mata Hari also gained favours, be it a place to stay, clothes, jewellery or money in exchange of sexual pleasure of her multiple sugar daddies. At times, she hesitated, at times she embraced the label "prostitute".

Now, I don't have any issue if only chooses to be a prostitute. After all, people do all the things for three reasons:

1. To get proper food;
2. To get proper sleep;
3. To attain mental peace.

Attaining mental peace is hard, so many tend to satisfy the cravings of their mind if they can't control their mind.
Mata Hari had expressed on numerous occasions she wanted to be free and independent and complains how that was not the case.

Hypocrisy at its finest. How are you expecting to be a free and independent person when you are earning favours by being a prostitute, or seducing people at the very least — being completely dependent on them. And you are so blinded by the favours you receive, that you walked right into the trap while claiming how you have avoided traps in your life. Moreover, when your livelihood is based on stripping on-stage while conning people to think they are an audience to some eastern dance. Despite that, you talk about how others were wrong, doing the exact same deceitful method you had been using.

Never had Mata Hari made any attempt cultivating friendship, just luring powerful men by seducing them — and then hoping them to help you. She equates "love" and "power" at least twice.

Do you know what I am going to do now, before I hear the footsteps in the corridor and the arrival of my breakfast? I am going to dance. I am going to remember every musical note and move my body to the rhythm, because it shows me who I am — a free woman!

Because that's what I always sought: freedom. I did not seek love, though it has come and gone. Because of love, I have done things, I shouldn't have, and traveled to places where people were lying in wait for me.

But I do not want to rush my own story; life is moving very quickly and I have struggled to keep up with it

Almost as if it feels Mata Hari was a new soul, who came to this strange world, hoping that she could learn a bit about give and take.
Were you dropped on the Earth when you were twenty? Or did you not listen to your mom when she was giving you valuable advice?

"Intimacy" with a man should take place only when there is love, and when that love is for life.

Instead of recalling her mother's advice about love, life and intimacy; Mata Hari chooses to marry just to fulfil some childish desires of marrying an officer, traveling to Indonesia for the "strange seas and exotic worlds". Not only you can do this without marrying; that is not the reason why one should marry.

Money and [craving for] more favours led the dancer to become a spy during the World War, and a double agent but being awfully bad and ignorant.

Her lawyer confesses his love for her [in the letter], and how she walked into the trap which led to her conviction, despite having no good evidence for her to be found guilty.

It was a terrible piece of fiction.
I liked the words, but not the story those words created. Mata Hari was a deluded character in the story which was just not worth my time.

Rating: ★★

Note:

1. Whatever I would write would not be rhetorical
2. For what it is worth, I do not have the answer to the question

I wonder how it was like for you when you went for a walk with your grandfather. Or when your grandmother would give you a sound piece of advice.
I would not know how either of those emotions feels, as I never got a chance.

When was the first time you knew you loved your grandparents? You did not love them at least until you learned your mommy had mum and dad too, and you would be visiting them for the first time in the summer breaks. You did not love them just when you heard about them, or even when you saw them--come to think about it--if your parents were to point out to any person, saying that person was your grandparent; when you had never seen them before, and you "loved" them. Well, they could have pointed to anyone, and would you still "love" them? Good thing that parents do not test their kids like this.

For those who have a younger sibling, it is very likely that their birth was one of the happiest moments in your life.
But do you love someone just because you shared the same womb at one point of in time? If you were to learn you had an elder sibling, who died before you were born, and you had a valid proof that it was true, would you start loving a person whom you had never interacted with, and never will, in your life?

Would you love your sibling if they were stillborn? Would you love the sibling, who never made it, who was miscarried, or who was aborted?

Think of that kid who never saw his dad because when he was in the womb, his father had to serve in the war to defend the country, and then he was captured as a prisoner of war. The father, after suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder, spending each moment in the prison thinking and hoping that his wife lives in the same house which he called "home". To see, if had a son or a daughter,
and how they would have been doing,
and figuring out how could they possibly explain not being there in their childhood--for no fault of either of two.

If the son opens the door, and he looks just like his mother and you the war veteran knows he is his kid and says: "Son! I am your dad."
Father is in tears, but the kid, in his late teens does not believe, yet. And his mother exclaims, "Arnold! Is that you?" and she is crying too, and the kid now realises this man, in his late 50s is his father.

Most of us would not know, how it is, to see your father for the first time, when you are in your teenagehood. You know your parents for as long as you remember--including your oldest memory.

But for what it is worth, you do not love your sister because she is your sister.
You do not love your grandparents because they are [your grandparents].
You do not love your parents because they are your parents.

"Blood relative" is not a good reason to love someone. There is a lot more to it.

You may admire, appreciate, respect someone whom you have never interacted with. "Love" requires something more profoundly strong and intense than all of those put together.

Dated January 17, 2019

Original text is at the bottom

"Karma" is one of the well-known words that English has adopted from Sanskrit. "Pundit" is another word which comes to my mind.

However, the process of adoption distorts the words, many-a-times. "Pundit" does not mean the exact same thing, "Karma" does not sound anything like its root word, "कर्म".

Actually, they sound very similar; I just happen to have stretched that too much. But a great many words of the Sanskrit word bank have a trailing 'a', in their transliterated spellings. It leads to corruption of pronunciation. Much to my annoyance, many people do not pronounce my name correctly.

For what it is worth, there is no /a/ sound at the end of "karma", in the root word.

What comes to your mind when you hear the word "karma"? How would you define "karma"? What do you know about it? Do you believe in "karma"?

"Do you believe in karma?"--this isn't a question people discuss when they meet new people, but over time, you may hear them say something about it.

Well, I did. And in the Asian religions--Sanatana dharm[a], Buddhism, Jainism, and as far as I have heard, Sikhism and even Taoism; the way of living the life is based on the philosophy.

However, "karma" has two separate meanings, somewhat related, but different.

In the general discussion, karma means the actions--actions that you did, or you ought to do.

In the philosophical discussion of the previously mentioned religions, the word has a deeper meaning. The division of "अच्छे कर्म" or the good deeds; from "बुरे कर्म", the bad deeds come in the spotlight.

Any being, who practices the previously mentioned religion is taught to do [a] great many number of good deeds and avoid the bad ones; but--unlike the monotheistic religions; which promises an eternal life in heaven or hell (judaism does not have the concept of after-life) based on sins and repentance; the religion that focuses on re-incarnation; they speak of the total good deeds and bad deeds, and that sum would determine which form would the being take, in their reincarnated life, and how difficult their new life will be.

The ideology is, speaking for the sanatana dharma, that the "endless" cycle of re-incarnation ends when the being is able to escape the mohmaayaa (मोहमाया) of the life, and they attain the higher level of consciousness. This enlightenment, or gaining the level of consciousness--this elevation is called "moksh" (मोक्ष) "मोक्ष प्राप्त होना" (transliteration: moksh praapt honaa) and may be explained as "gaining freedom from the delusions of the worries of this life, in order to attain that state of mind where the delusions start to feel petty".

The philosophy of karma in any of the previously mentioned religions: there is this saying:

1. "अच्छा करने वालों के साथ अच्छा होता है।"
2. "जैसी करनी, वैसी भरनी।"
3. "जैसा कर्म करोगे, वैसा फल प्राप्त करोगे।"

While all three essentially convey the same meaning: the way they have been phrased, that could be the reason why people may be unclear about what it means. (More on that in a moment.)

The translations are:

1. "Good things happen to those who perform good deeds."
2. "You receive [based on] what you do."
3. "As you sow so shall you reap."

I must admit the third phrase is not the most accurate translation, but that idiom is dangerously close to the intended meaning.

I don't think all the people understand the concept of karma. And to be frank, "I believe in karma" is a meaningless sentence that people use. I don't know if the people saying this are aware that it is just a set of words which makes no sense.
"I believe in justice".
"I believe in the supreme court".
"I believe my heart".

They are some of the other set of words which makes no sense. The last one seems to be out of place, but it may help understand why it is wrong.

"I believe my heart"--what? That your heart is on the left half? That it pumps blood? What?

"I believe in the supreme court"--what? Do you believe supreme court will rule in a just manner? If so, say so.

"Omit needless words". But it is very different from "Omit words".

I don't want to be speech-policing, but when you say "I believe in Karma", which may mean
"I believe good things would happen to me as a return gift for my good deeds, and in contrast, bad things would happen to me as punishment for my bad deeds"--it sounds silly.
As if the entire universe is consciously plotting to award or punish you by monitoring your actions continuously. No, you are not continuously being watched by external agents; we aren't there yet, thank you very much. [You are too trivial for this cosmos for it to maintain records of what your ought to receive.]

Call it wishful thinking, but I am curious to learn about the hypothetical world where the universe has its own conscience.

I am not sure why people say "I believe in karma" without any consideration of the possibility that it may be incorrect, and they are doing no good as they missed what karma is meant to symbolise.

To be honest, I like the idea of karma--that it counts both good and bad deeds. The reason being that you would not be condemned till the end of time for the bad deeds. Even if you have done something that can be classified as a bad deed, you are not doomed. You can still try to be a better person. You have many chances to do good things. And more importantly, repentance is not the precursor to salvation. If you have ever done a bad thing, and you regret it--it is good that you analyse your actions; but if you strongly regret it, you would try to make up for it. The concept of karma provides opportunities for making the world a better place.

I feel the concept of counting the weights of all the good deeds and all the bad ones also try to teach people to be accountable for their actions. But chaining it with re-incarnation, it is a caution for people that if you somehow escape the consequences of your actions now; well, you can not outrun it forever.

So even though I can see the good motivations to base the idea of re-incarnation of the accountability of one's own actions, I do not subscribe to the idea as I have not discovered any evidence to trust incarnation is an actual phenomenon.

Remember that quote: "Good things happen to those who do good deeds?"
The way this quote is framed, it gives creates an illusion of that: something good ought to happen if you do good deeds. Or as if the universe somehow owes you a good thing in return for your good actions, I might as well argue that such greedy and self-centric desires undo the good deeds and now the bad deeds weigh more. (I promise I will tell you why)

One of my favourite quotes has been spoken by one of my least favourite mythological beings, Krishna.
(What is the difference between "mythical" and "mythological"?)

The version of the verse I like is:
"कर्म करते जा,फल की आशा मत रख।"
which translates to, "Keep on performing your actions, do not expect returns."

However, the entire quote is:

"कर्मण्येवाधिकारस्ते मा फलेषु कदाचन।
मा कर्मफलहेतुर्भूर्मा ते सङ्गोऽस्त्वकर्मणि॥ ४७॥

I would use Swami Dayananda Saraswati's translation:
"Your choice is in action only, never in the results thereof. Do not think you are the author of the results of action. Let your attachment not be to inaction."

It would be a valid concern:
if no entity owes me, if I should not expect any results of actions, and if there are no convincing proofs to trust reincarnation is a real phenomenon, why to bother doing good deeds?

(I hope I remember to offer my views on "reincarnation"--what it may symbolise.)

I have seen people do good things by their own will, but not by heart. I could not help but notice the duality of their personality of acting noble in front of everyone, but their standards degrade when they aren't being watched.

There are some who help the needy for the reason: "मदद करना पुण्य का काम होता है।"

I do not know how to translate it, as I have no idea how to best explain what "पुण्य" means. However, I can say for certain that anyone who does the deeds labelled "good" for the sake of earning some brownie points, they have not earned done any good deeds, and they would not receive any good returns.

"Why?", you may ask.

I said that we weren't being monitored by an external agent continuously. Do you remember the second quote? "You receive [based on] what you do." So how does that work without any arbitrator?

The important thing that people who "believe in karma" are missing is that the bad deeds that you perform consciously, any external entity may not be watching it, but the mind is. The mind monitors you continuously. The bad deeds that you do, it disturbs the mental peace and rots your mind. Bad deeds destabilise the mind and you lose control over your own mind. You can't control your mind and thus, you are more susceptible to the bad experiences. Also, the bad deeds that you do, if you are aware of it, the feeling of guilt is going to add to the misery.

Anyone who is trapped inside the intense feeling of guilt, lost their mental peace, and have a destabilised mind out of their control, they "receive" the "punishment" of their bad deeds almost immediately,
and what "instant karma" now means--getting "pwned" by someone else, it is just a coincidence. The one experiencing guilt, has lost the peace, whose mind is chaos and who can't control their mind, they also become restless, and they are like a wrecking ball. Not just because the wrecking ball causes destruction [in its path], but, the wrecking ball does not have the consciousness to realise the destruction they are causing, and how it is also hurting them.

I really can't think of a more terrible situation than:

• feeling guilty
• losing peace of mind
• destabilised mind
• unable to control the mind
  and becoming restless[, as well as impatient]

People do stupid things when they are impatient [because they can not think or analyse properly]. In this case, the person loses their most priced prized possession.

And those who try to ignore the ill-feelings that the bad deeds ignite:

Ignorance is a bliss…ter.

Don't be ignorant or arrogant--which is going to dehumanise you, as you start surrendering the feeling of emotions. You would not feel satisfied, you would not feel complete.

For those [dual personality people] who are performing actions labelled "good", the reason they would not experience anything good is because their mind is also convinced such deed would earn them brownie point which they can exchange for gifts: unfortunately, but unsurprisingly; they are not in control of their own minds. The mind is too busy being self-absorbed, that it is restless. The mind is at higher state of entropy and therefore, it is unstable.

The other half: the good actions done willingly, without any greed of the reward, because they feel it is a nice thing to do; those people attain mental peace and [a] sense of satisfaction. That is undoubtedly the greatest "gift" one could receive. The stability they attain: it is the instant gratification.

And therefore, good deeds, which calms you--it acts as an excellent medicine against the traumatic experiences of bad deeds. It is very easy to disturb an already destabilised system. But any system in equilibrium would tend to stay in equilibrium. Mental peace makes the mind stable, makes the being feel relaxed, calm, and above all, makes them patient, granting them [a] clear vision.

A great many things are possible when a person has patience and peace of mind.

The universe does not owe you any happiness. Nor do you need to wait to reap the reward. There is no greater reward than having control over a peaceful, patient mind. You are reaping the reward.

You are accountable for your happiness. There is no list of good deeds and the bad deeds which is applicable for to everyone, you have to figure out on your own. But one thing I can say for certain is that the good deeds will humble you and make you experience joy.

And I disagree with that quote that we aren't the authors of the result of [our] action. Every action that we do with our will, it dictates the plausible result. We aren't being judged by any external entity. Our conscience and our mind are with us, continuously monitoring, and they "reward" us accordingly. The mind is the best judge, and the punisher as you can't escape your mind.

So, to answer the question:
No, karma is not a bitch. Probably you are--for choosing to do something that your conscience was warning you about, and you choose to do it anyway--becoming the author of your own misery.
And then you shamelessly blame it on karma. Karma doesn't bite you in the ass. Your decisions and actions have an affect effect on you as well as the surroundings, which you are accountable for.

Remember when I said[,] "I might argue that greedy, self-centric desires undo the good deeds"? such desires spark the "want" in you and your mind is restless about it. It is unstable and your mental peace is flushed out. And hence, "bad deeds would weigh more than good", as its results are influencing you.

If you do not control your wants, they would control your mind. Focus on what you need, and not what you want. You don't have a convincing reason for your wants. But you know why exactly you need something.

"I want to be rich."
"I want donuts."
"I want to watch the movie."

"I need to rest."
"I need some advice."
"I need a glass of water."

Wants aren't alienable, and you should use your conscience. Remember that "we often trade the long-term benefits for small, potentially insignificant benefits."

I think the higher state of consciousness, the moksh praapti, it refers to attaining the peace of mind that it is undisturbed and can not be disturbed. The long-term benefit of peace of mind to escape the mohmaaya frees us from the illusions of the trivial problems in the life.

Karma is a beautiful concept, tied with re-incarnation. Not taking it literally, and looking at what it symbolises:
Every new stage in your life is determined by your past actions: if you did good, you enjoy the peace. If you did bad, the terrible feelings it causes--those are the obstacles and the hardships [of the "new life"]. You can improve in at this moment, which determines the next moment.
And each moment is like a new life, resulting from the deeds you have done, and the "re-birth" ends with attaining the inner peace which liberates you from the temporary issues.

With the peace of mind that one achieves, the clear mind is able to navigate and filter away the maayaajaal--the illusionary trap: and feel satisfied. It is not the ignorance of the worldly problems, but prioritising them and weighing its impact.

What Krishna told Arjun about doing your work without losing control of your mind to desires of returns; it can be deconstructed to understand.
A newbie needs to have the encouragement to practice critical thinking which is crucial for moksh praapti.
It makes you think "why should I not care about the reward?" when the entire life you have been rewarded or punished. This quote, the learning ignites self-discovery of the working of [the] mind and how to not fall for the traps. It also emphasises on continuing the [good] work.

You are very much the author of rewards that you reap--which is embedded in your actions you are responsible for and you have chance to attain moksh, no matter what you have done, no matter what you have been through. You are not out of chances, as each moment, resulting in the situation you have already, lets you to be better than you are.

Don't say "Karma is a bitch", be accountable for your actions as your mind would be the judge.
Do you still "believe in karma" or do you understand the state of mind is the best reward and the endless cycle of re-incarnation ends with you gaining the everlasting peace of mind, or when you die.

Use your conscience to decide what your goal is.

1939 • Germany
Alex Steiner: Son, you can't go around painting yourself black, you hear?
Rudy Steiner: Why not, Papa?
Alex Steiner: Because they'll take you away.
Rudy Steiner: Why?
Alex Steiner: Because you shouldn't want to be black people or Jewish people or anyone who is…not us.
Rudy Steiner: Who are Jewish people?
Alex Steiner: You know my oldest customer, Mr Kaufman? Where we bought your shoes?
Rudy Steiner: Yes.
Alex Steiner: Well, he is Jewish.
Rudy Steiner: I didn't know that. Do you have to pay to be Jewish? Do you need a licence?
Alex Steiner: No, Rudy. […] It's like you're German, or Catholic.
Rudy Steiner: Oh. Is Jesse Ownes Catholic?
Alex Steiner: I don't know.
Rudy Steiner: I just wish I was like Jesse Ownes, Papa.
Alex Steiner: I know, son– but you've got beautiful blonde hair and big, safe blue eyes. You should be happy with that, is that clear?

—The Book Thief, Marcus Zusak

"I guess I have to do it now. It does not feel right to tell my little boy about all the atrocities that has happened because of the race, gender, ethnicity, et cetera.
I wish that poor innocent soul would never have to learn about it. But I do not want him to be unaware of the past. One day or the other, he would come to know about it."

You might never be ready for that day, but one day, you would have to speak to your child about the various forms of discrimination. You would hesitate: the child is too innocent to learn about hatred that has tormented us. "Maybe not today. Let him not know about the bias now." But you can't delay it forever. It would be better if you taught your child about the transgressions like racial discrimination before the child experiences it for themselves.

You fear that after telling that innocent kid, you would be staining them, contaminating their minds, and then they would start noticing colours. You would hope that they understand it, but for someone who has never been wicked, how would that clean kid possibly understand what you are trying to say? They would not be able to parse the fact that at one point of time in history, people treated oppressing others was fine.

Q. I wonder what is the best way to tell a kid about the cruelties like oppression, racial discrimination, gender-based discrimination, ethnic cleansing, xenophobia or any form of bias? How would you even tell about the cultural differences?

Q. I wonder how old was I, when I first noticed bias, oppression and siblings of such heinous deeds?

I would strongly suggest you listening to You've Got to Be Carefully Taught, a 1949-song composed by Richard Rodgers, and lyrics Oscar Hammerstein II for South Pacific.

Link to the song on YouTube, or listen here:

Dated June 16, 2018

"Education" might not be the correct word for what I want to share right now.

How about "Education System"[?] There might be a few people who would agree that current education system is doomed. We are taught "what" instead of learning "why". And it is important to maintain a balance between the two. However, many people are dissatisfied with the current education system for providing "knowledge" in a bad way and not doing enough for creativity.

[A] few months ago, I read a tweet: "Only things missing from Indian education system are 'education' and 'system'".

However, what students are given in the name of education—this isn't the thing bothering me.

I wonder how many [people] believe "education is truly important". An overwhelming majority will say it *is* important, but after answering that question, a lot would question themselves—"Is it true?" [The second thoughts about this] is due to the fact that they were not satisfied with the quality of education the received. Frankly, how many of [us] want to go to college for getting knowledge? I did, for one subject. One subject in the last four semesters!

I am not even motivated to go to college because I feel I could learn more things in a better way on my own, through the resources.

Learning. From the resources available at my disposal.

It is easy to complain (though one should) when we have resources to cover up.

But everyone is not privileged enough. I want to know the meanings of "learning", "understanding", "education" and "privilege", but that is for another day.

We have the "right to education" in India. Our constitution grants that as a fundamental right.

But education just for the namesake is going no good to anyone. Though subjective, it should be "right to quality education".

This evening, I met a person on the way to [the] nearby supermarket. He was selling vegetables to collect money to pay school fees. He asked me to buy something [from him]. He had tomatoes and some other vegetables. And his voice made it clear, his eyes made it clear. The way he said "Anna!" made it clear. They wanted money as soon as possible to pay for the school fees so that the person would receive education and live a better life.

It is easy for us to denounce our education system—but somehow, all the education we had received is the reason we can have these thoughts and opinions [in] the first place.

I never hated going to school, or said "I don't want to go to school"—I had attendance greater than 90%. But did I ever stop by, and appreciate having a chance to learn and [for] enough resources—I have been very fortunate. [A] few months ago, I felt that I was wasting my dad's money, as this was not working out. I can't deal with this education system.

But there are people who are willing to do anything they possibly can, to receive education, (for themselves or for their siblings, or children, or other relatives). Some of us were told to "study well". Those who told us this wanted us to make the most of this opportunity to receive an education—those people valued education. They either did not get a chance to, or had other problems, including monetary[,] that affected them.

But the fact that there are so many people willing to take a chance to learn; doesn't that make the education providers, the government and everyone in power to make changes [to] do something about it?

If it is a fundamental right of every Indian, why do I not find changes in the better direction?

Two years ago, I went to a school in a rural area in Rajasthan. There were more than 20 students, but the school was no better than ruins. We used to complain about the benches, lights, timetables, teachers and almost everything. This school had no electricity or proper boards. Even the supply of drinking water was not up to the mark. Two teachers, students from class 3 to 8 (that I know of) but these students had a will to learn. Even though looking at the resources and even the books, I had given up—accepting that the census will list these students as literates, but this [form of education] may not bring a real change—an effective progress.

I know that most of the things that I do on Wikimedia projects is benefiting only those [who are] privileged enough, with the resources. We call it "free knowledge culture" but will we ever make an impact in helping everyone[?]

I feel we [all] could do more. And if we can, we should!

I may not be the first person to point out that by buying from supermarkets, we are profiting the companies, which aren't going to lose anything if we don't buy one kilogram of tomatoes from them.

Actually, I am not even attempting to. This is not an enterprise vs people, who need our help (by we, buying from them). It is not the universal case and the comparison is just insulting them. At the end of the day, any human, who has ever lived, was due to the sun being the only source of energy and how much the human took from the nature (subject to what was morally and ethically "correct")

But the fact that there are so many people who never had the resources we had—these people had the will to learn; and those (including me and & anyone who can read this) with the resources, to give them a chance to learn.

No matter how small the contribution seems, help as much as you can. Do not shy away from not helping others because you feel it might not make any significant difference. You don't know that. The only way to know is to help those people.

In a conversation, John Shutt told me, "I learned from my father, always leave things better than you found them."

I should apply that to anything and everything that I do.

The vegetable vendor spoke to me in Kannada, and I don't understand it [Kannada]. But when we want to convey something to the person in front of us, "language barrier" is not a barrier. Fortunately, I had some cash and my [ATM] card. He insisted me to buy the vegetables, but instead of tomatoes, I took home the lesson that [any] person who needs your help—they might be in a need of something more than you could possibly give. But even if you can not give your 100%, help them.

The education system may be far from being perfect, but we still need it. Everyone needs it. And nobody in the idealistic state should be deprived of it. Let's make development in the direction of that eutopia.

Regarding the vegetable vendor:

I had parked my cycle in-front of the supermarket. I saw a woman asking the cashier for change. I thought she bought some vegetables from this vendor but none of them had change. But then, the vegetable vendor calls me and says, "Anna!…" I could not understand what he was saying. And I told him that I did not understand Kannada. But somehow he managed to convey the message, asking me to buy some vegetables from him to collect money for school fees.

I searched my pockets, and I had some notes—usually I carry only the card. I wanted to help him, because these things should not prevent anyone from having a chance to study. I gave him the money, and he insisted that I buy some vegetables in return. I could not tell him that I could do nothing with the vegetables.

I don't know how to articulate about this. —It is that they are ready to offer something in return of money and not 'free money'. They gave me a lesson. To be thankful for the chances, and opportunities I had, and never had to face the hardships. To make sure we do as much as we can, to make sure others get a chance. Because if one can, one should.

I never had to wait in line for water, each morning, or do household work, or make money to pay for the fees. I had never faced those hardships, though I was always told about. There are people who had to look behind their younger siblings, cook food for them, do chores along with the study—that too, for primary education. Not college. These are the people with strong will power. And it is such a shame that these people do not get a chance.

This might be a coincidence, but exactly one year ago, on June 16, I heard this:

Don't fear failure. Be afraid of not having the chance. You have the chance.

Well, if we have the chance, let's make sure others get an opportunity, too.

Dated June 10, 2018

I may not be the person you feel comfortable talking and opening up to, and it is not your fault; and there may be a million things you would rather do, before even thinking of letting me speak to you, but it is my duty to tell you this:

Dear Tecrübe,
I may not be the person who can give you the sense of happiness a cigarette gives you.

I would never be able to take you to a different world, an eutopia.

I might never be the person you feel close to or feel comfortable with. You may hesitate opening up to me, you may feel "Why should I speak to this stranger?"

I do not blame you. It is not your fault I never tried to make things easy for you.

But let me tell you this: I will try, as much as I possibly can, for you to feel comfortable being you. Even if you say "There is no 'me' left in me". I do not believe that. It is my duty to tell you how amazing you are, Tecrübe. Even if you feel otherwise.

I don't want you to detach from this world. No, I am trying as much as possible, for you to be in this world. Maybe you don't need me, but I can see the mask you wear—this is not your true self. There is no reason to worry—be your true self. Do things that really makes you happy. Please embrace yourself. Accept yourself. Don't be so harsh on yourself, Tecrübe. You can end this suffering.

It is okay if you want to shut me out. You have the free will to do so and I respect your decision. But I will always be there for you. I see the hope in you.

I can see you are suffering. And I want to help you. Even if you don't want to talk about it, it is okay to ask for help—please don't ever forget that.

Your pain would never reduce if you are going to ignore it. Accept it. Embrace it. And that will be your first step towards healing.

It is okay if you hesitate acknowledge your sufferings. We all do. But because you do not want to acknowledge it—It is hard, yes. But if you want to overcome it, you need to believe in yourself.

Do you want to overcome it?

It is okay to fight alone. It is okay to ask for help. Don't ever be scared of "What others are going to feel about it?"

Accepting oneself is the single-most important thing, Tecrübe.

Remember Tecrübe: I will always be there for you.

—Just another person who sees hope in you

Tecrübe, please use your free will to make yourself happy—something that is long-lasting. You can make decisions yourself, but if you ever need help, do not hesitate.

Dated June 3, 2018

Original text is at the bottom.

This is a big mess to even articulate it. I don't know how to start, I am not going to lie. So let me speak about what I have been told:

One has to, or better say, [one] is expected to tip the waiter in the US. Say 10–15% of the original bill. They would even remind you to do it if you don't tip them enough.

In Japan, however, one should not tip the waiter as it is considered wrong—waiters are expected to do their job and to be nice to the customers. Rewarding them with money is, I guess offensive. Doing what is expected from humans—when you pay for it (in terms of money) this can have various meanings.

I have not travelled to distant lands or worked at a restaurant but I can make some deductions.

Money, in various cultures[,] can mean very different. And tipping, I guess, it is just an act of appreciation.

It is no secret that the helping nature is diminishing. Actually, saving actions of humanity, it is getting harder and harder. We are surrounded by so many people who deny us help, or mistreat, or act like a douche-bag, or act less than a human should act. I don't suppose I need to bring out all the possibilities of thing[s] going wrong if a woman is walking on an empty, silent road at 1 AM.

The condition has worsened that when someone does not misuse us or takes an advantage, we appreciate their act—not that we should not appreciate, but it happens so rarely nowadays that a normal act of human seems an act of an angel.

If a man sees a woman lying on the ground, unconscious, and takes her to her home instead of misusing (not misusing—as you might have noticed it is not easy for me to agree and write about it—but the statistics suggest otherwise—what are the chances that the person would not rape her?)

So doing it, the act of not-even-thinking-about-rape-and-instead-taking-her-to-her-home, is what one is expected to do. Not doing inhumane things does not make anyone an angel: they are "good humans".

Similarly, I feel waiters are expected to treat the customers nicely. And asking for money [tip] makes them no different from a bully asking you for money [for] not bullying you.

Maybe not the best analogy but it is not something a waiter should even ask for. It is the professional ethics.

Tipping the waiter is, regardless of which culture is considered, appreciating them for their services. At the same time, money is something which can have multiple meanings.

You appreciate a waiter's service. You show this appreciation by tipping them. Maybe because that was the only thing you could do [at] that time. But in all fairness, do you tip your mom for feeding you when you were a kid?

There is a very little you could have done for the waiter then [at that time]. And somehow we think tipping them is better than actually telling them about it, thanking them for their services.

Don't tell me it is a problem—language—because, in 2013, I went to a restaurant where the waiters were deaf: none of them could hear. And I remember the waiter who took out order—I thanked him [before leaving]—I did not know sign language, nor could they hear, but when you truly want to convey a message, you need no words. And when I thanked him for his service, Abhijeet, from Kolkata, the waiter, had a big smile on his face. I could feel he was happy, and that made me happy. If I had money and I had (instead of appreciating via word-less actions) tipped them, it would not have brought a smile. It would have been so bland, and temporary thing. Money is not the only way to appreciate anyone's work.

I agree the words are losing their meaning because they are overused, used at the wrong places [in the wrong context], maybe because people are no longer interested in the fact that someone is putting an effort to speak to them.

That is not the case with emotions. If you truly mean something, and if the person is in front of you, you will be able to convey it. Even the newborns are able to communicate with their parents, you have no excuse not to.

Don't hand out a 100-rupee note to a hungry person on the road who is destitute. If possible buy them food and if you have "enough" "time" from your so-called "busy" "life" in this "social" world, take them to a restaurant and have a meal together.

When you pay ["give money to", not "pay"] someone at the restaurant because they opened the door for you, they would thank you for the money—but I can not think of a more embarrassing moment if someone gives me money for some random act of kindness [or, things] I was expected to do.

If you thank that person instead, can you imagine how happy that person would be? Acknowledgement they receive and the appreciation, that is the driving force. Money is going to make them feel invisible and unimportant. That is not what you want to do to someone whom you appreciate[,] for their service. Make them feel visible, appreciated, and important by actually saying rather than finding a short way around, tip-toe the situation.

[A] lot of people make [a] huge sum of money and more than what they need for a happy life. There are so many six-year-old orphans on the streets selling flowers or cleaning [car] windows to earn enough not to starve to death. Don't let "we can't help everyone" stop you from helping someone. Sometimes it is money, what one is looking for. A boy, hundreds of kilometres away from home, who paid the money for the ticket, but by mistake, somebody else was handed his ticket, and he had no money left—that boy needs money. A waiter, who receives money, [it] might not be enough for the pursuit of happiness, they need to be felt important.

"Excuse me, waiter! I really appreciate your kind services. Thank you so much! I really wanted you to know how much I appreciated your services. If you don't mind, I would like to tip you. But if you don't want to be tipped, please take [accept] this money, and use it to help a needy person. Again, I am so lucky that you were my waiter. Have a great day!"

Dated May 18, 2018

I have been questioning myself "Do I deserve it?" for more than two [years] now. Less often than before. I ask it thrice; emphasising on "I", "deserve" and "it" each time and notice how the tone of the question changes with dragging a few syllables.

I guess I don't ask it anymore because I have changed since May 26, 2015; the day when I could finally understand the meaning of "There is no substitute for 'hard work'". There is a difference between "knowing" and "understanding". There is "understanding", "accepting" and "following". I would say that despite learning how to accept it, rather a hard way, and advising others about it, I do not follow it. It is a shame, yes. But in all fairness, in the journey to accept that, I learnt "never to give up".

Maybe I don't ask myself that question because I don't know how to conclude whether I deserve "it", whether anyone deserves "it" or not! There [are] always so many things any jury would overlook. Not necessarily "good" or "bad". It could be neutral [sic], unintentional — ignorance or lack of knowledge. Something could be "good" in someone's definition but may mean something else in other's way of comprehending and evaluating. Definitions change as time flows, as one learns and experiences something or as one is radicalised or even turns ignorant.

Maybe it is impossible to answer if "someone" "deserves" "it".

However, I think I have been asking the wrong question. Or may be the word choice was poor. Maybe I should not be worrying about deserving something, heck, I don't even know what it means; I guess instead, I should be focusing on delivering my 100%.

I know, the next question would be "How would I know if it is 'my 100%'?" Again, I have been focusing on hard-lined rules. How about "Am I satisfied [with my effort]?". Am I satisfied with framing a better alternative? Yes, at least as of now, yes. I know, when I am satisfied, I don't ask for more — I know it because I convince myself that I am not satisfied in order to push myself.

I stop trying when I know I am right. But when I am told that I could have done better, that acts as the driving force.

I was planning to get a print out of "You are wrong" in a bold slab-serif uppercase and hang it on the wall. But maybe I should not. What if it affects me in a way I did not intend it to; and I stop looking at that side of the wall? What if it is so intense that I give up and don't try to be 'better'?

I could ask myself: "Am I satisfied with what I am doing?" If the answer is "no", well, push harder! Make it give the feeling of satisfaction. If the answer was "yes!" with the fucking exclamation, then and then only go for the follow-up question.

One hasn't given their "100%" if the reply was just "yes". Real satisfaction…well I can't articulate at the moment but there is a difference between a "yes" and a "yes!".

The follow-up question is: "Can I do it better?" The possible answers should be: "of course" or "may be". When it is the former, there is the driving force. "May be" is just to be optimistic. It is not a lie; if I think about it. If sometimes, the answer was "no", and that could be due to any damn reason. Ask yourself, "Why? Why did I say 'no'?". Because when you could dare to say "no"; unknowingly you were influenced by the most influential person who would come in your life. That person is you. Congratulations! You are the most influential person, the only one to convince you that you could not have improvised. It is good to be the most influential person; but why not use it to make the world, a better place?

Maybe that is how one could learn "never to give up [on improving]". The threshold of your satisfaction will go up, but so will your will and determination to be better than before.

All of this just because I decided to solve a [D]ijkstra's algorithm question with two minutes left on the clock. Seven vertices and twelve edges — I told myself: "I would not be able to finish it on time." And the immediate reply was, "So what?"

I guess that wasn't the best way for handling the situation. How can I tell if I will be able to, or, not; without trying?

Later today, I realised that SuRie's song "Storm", which I have been listening to, on repeat this entire week; which has this line:

"Give all you've got. Hold your head up. Don't give up — no! no!"

It is not the "negative" way of not giving up. It is not "positive" either. It just tells you to go on without bothering a positive or a negative tone.

Well, why should I not give up? And that too, on everything? Because this is how we can practice to not-give-up for the more challenging and bigger problems? One can't always be prepared. Just like I wasn't, for this question: so maybe I will have to find out!

Dated September 6, 2013

This is something I wrote in September 2013, for a morning assembly speech, but I did not write everything and did not explain everything. To deliver a speech, I used to pen down my thoughts on a piece of paper — to have an idea what came to my mind. I never carried the piece of paper with me to the "dais" and spoke whatever came to my mind at that instant.

I wish I could have written it in a better way. Even after five years, I find my thoughts somewhat similar. But I can express it in a better way. However, I would not do that. I do not edit what I have written once it is written—that is something I avoid. If you ask me about it now, I am ready to share my current thoughts about it.

Hello friends, we had some great events this week. Yesterday was teacher's day, on 3rd it was Closing Ceremony of Communal harmony.

Oh! I [a]m diverting from my point. Today I will speak about patriotism.

But I [a]m standing here to speak no good of patriotism.

So who is a patriot? A person who loves his [their] nation intensely.

Intense feelings mould our destiny.

So what is bad about it? Nothing! Nothing is bad about it but something is surely wrong becoz [because] of it.

[A] nation is related to territory, an area owned by a social group.

A patriot would care only for his [their] country.

[A] soldier is considered as a true patriot. These patriots will kill other patriots in war. It is because of war.

But why war? Because of territary [territory].

In the film Border, a soldier says, why should I fight a war? Why should I kill a soldier who loves his country[?] He, who has done no harm to me and is a son to [of] his mother?

So, do we actually have to kill a stranger who is serving for his [their] country[?]

Isn't it [the] mass destruction of Communal Harmony[?] And in Indians, patriotism is installed on the eve of 14th Aug[ust] and deactivated till by 15th night. [Many] Indians believe supporting India in a cricket match displays the patriotism. There was uncontrolled rain in Uttarakhand, some heavy showers in London. But [some] people desperately wanted that rain should stop in London so India could play final of CT2013 [ICC Champions Trophy 2013].

The next paragraph is controversial. At that time I was in a "Facebook comment-battle" with some of my seniors who said Pakistan is a terrorist nation. They also added: 'Pakistanis are terrorists'.

I, however, never endorsed this—but I did not document this properly in the article then. And while delivering the speech, I had changed it drastically not to make it offensive.

Next problem, differentiation. Frankly, several people thinks [think] about terrorist hearing 'Pakistan'. Just becoz [because] Al-Queda is in Pakistan? Pakistanis are also our brothers & sisters not becoz [because] first it [Pakistan] was part of India[,] but we all are homo sapiens.

There was no India in history nor there exists any India on this earth.

What is [the] difference between Indian land the rest of the world[?] Is water of Indian rivers sweeter than other rivers[?]

They [Then] why these boundaries[?] The whole earth is one. Nobody has right to chop it.

We say religion disturbs communal harmony. Totally wrong [I meant to say people/groups debating in the name of religion]. Every religion teaches you to be kind, to be honest, to help others [and] to respect everyone.

What does patriotism teaches [teach] you? To be unified in 1 [one] country and then kill those who try to snatch your motherland.

There is nothing called motherland. Don't try to divide mother Earth.

And at least, don't curse religions, they help you to be good and for perfect harmony, there should exist no boundary.

After I the delivered the speech, my principal asked me if my thoughts were influenced by his comments about patriotism. He had previously said "Patriotism is mad worship of the flag". I told him, "No", but I must admit, that remark had influenced me to speak about it.
It wasn't easy to speak about it without "stubbing someone's toe". I do not regret what I wrote, I wrote [what was going on in] my mind. But I would never decline an opportunity to go back in time, and ask my younger self not to be so gender-biased in the speech, and to better explain what exactly I was thinking—something I have improved later in my life, but I have not quite mastered it yet.

And: I do not think about the organised religion in the same way. Oh my! That remark about [organised] religion did not age well, did it?